Aimbot/Walls on HC Server

[coolfaceginger]

I'm new here but have 1600hrs in game and caught over a dozen botters at MIg. This guy is botting. The hard snap through smoke at 10 sec should tell ya. Note that lasers and scopes might not show while you are recording, but will show in the recorded video. Anyone without some sort of assist would go for the player in broad daylight to the left..

 

[IJHicks]

Looks a bit iffy however playing devils advocate that smoke from the explosion may have only been showing for you BF4 spectating is very funky sometimes and it looks like the smoke has frozen.

[BwFreiheit]

The Problem is, smoke differs from low to high setting....if ure playing on low setting (which he does) than there is no smoke visible. It's as easy as that

[JAYsus_NL]

It`s just one kill..... Don`t think anything strange of that. Seen more strange things in this game!

 

Edit;

 

Don`t forget.... They are always in tanks!

Edited July 28, 2016 by JAYsus_NL

[coolfaceginger]

I would agree except the special effects smoke lingers, and dissipates as he goes through it. Here's a slightly longer clip to show it isn't very old.

 

[JAYsus_NL]

The Problem is, smoke differs from low to high setting....if ure playing on low setting (which he does) than there is no smoke visible. It's as easy as that

 

Well, there is smoke, but not as black as this...

[coolfaceginger]

The Problem is, smoke differs from low to high setting....if ure playing on low setting (which he does) than there is no smoke visible. It's as easy as that

 

 

Not true. If it were, everyone would run their system on low for this reason.

 

https://youtu.be/d-IK9Q5aOdY?t=56s

 

Regardless of setting since the Dec patch thermal cannot see through active smoke. Any smoke.

 

The graphics level simply changes the detail of the smoke from a black blob to a black plume of death.

Edited July 28, 2016 by coolfaceginger

[BwFreiheit]

Not true. If it were, everyone would run their system on low for this reason.

 

https://youtu.be/d-IK9Q5aOdY?t=56s

 

Regardless of setting since the Dec patch thermal cannot see through active smoke. Any smoke.

 

The graphics level simply changes the detail of the smoke from a black blob to a black plume of death.

 

Also not true. I admint the statement "no smoke" is wrong. BUT Check out some Jackfrags videos where hes explaining aboaut the best settings for perfect performance and visibility. It makes a difference. On different settings smoke has different transparencies, durations and volumes. It also disappears faster on low settings than on high. And since uve been playing this game for so many hours, you may have noticed that with some scopes zooming into the smoke makes it disappear, which is certainly not intended but we all know how well DICE programs their games. That also applies for thermal optics. If ur settings are low and on ur end the smoke is either barely visible, thin or already gone then u can look "thru" it even with a thermal scope.

Besides: I understand ur frustration. I can agree that with the recent changes EA made by "giving away" games, the number of hackers definitely increased. But u can believe me and the admins that zonk is not hacking

[dudebroman]

Having gamed with the zonks in the past, on their teamspeak and in the xi server, I'll be the first to say...I could have sworn they were all hackers.

 

I actively spectated them for hours on end, and you know what came of my recordings after watching over and over...nothing.

 

You'd get one or two shots over an insane distance, which would be a headshot, but that would be more luck than anything as I've done the same.

 

Zonks play in a pack. Everyone plays assault unless there is a need for an engineer or resupply etc. I've played with them, in their teamspeak...speaking English (which they've said they understand) whilst they speak in German (which I understand just fine). When I did...my kd was higher and in general my scores were better. Because they play as a unit and play with cohesion.

 

When I play xi, I play to have fun.

 

As a person that spent ages watching them...trust me...they're not hackers.

 

Edit

 

Speaking of smoke...I play on as low as possible. Smoke is barely visible for me, and I can shoot through it with reasonable ease, especially using thermal or NV optics.

Edited July 28, 2016 by netphlix_n_chill

[coolfaceginger]

Unless you want to provide links, this is just conjecture. It makes absolutely no sense that Dice would give an advantage to lower performance settings in any situation. Shorter duration has no impact on game performance, detail does however. Netphlix he locks without flir, then turns it on. Standing in smoke and seeing a vague outline, then using a full mag for a kill is different from locking a target 50m away through heavy smoke when there is another guy outside the smoke just to his left.

 

He locks to the player without any change in zoom or scope field. 

 

It's a short video because anyone familiar with botters will recognize the snap to lock and through smoke no less. I can post videos of him snapping to target but it's too easy to say "oh he's just good" or "oh thats spectator lag". A snap lock through smoke is a dead ringer.

 

I'm not frustrated. I played on his team for a couple rounds then against him for maybe 5 minutes before I decided to watch and see if he was. Shortly after I took this video. The dude is botting, and unless you have some evidence (IE links) then can we keep it to admins/the player in question only, please.

Edited July 28, 2016 by coolfaceginger

[BwFreiheit]

 

these are the best settings in case u wanna try them and sadly yes, DICE gives advantages for playing with low settings.

 

It is good that u posted this video...its the only way to get rid of hackers. That been said, Meldun aint one of them

[coolfaceginger]

Interesting as that may be, nothing in there shows him using thermal through smoke or even seeing through smoke. Improved visibility is not the same as rending smoke useless. Again, there is no reason for this to happen.

 

I know it can be frustrating and somewhat hard to believe that a teammate/friend is cheating, but I promise you that he is. Have you ever noticed that despite his incredible aim, he has very poor battle tactics even though he has more hours than either of us? He simply runs into the field and hopes that his "aim" will do the work. It's painful to watch him scope a tank from across the field, or snap lock/track a player 20 feet away with an 8x scope, then stumble around the battlefield. 

 

In any case, take solace in the fact that despite your hours and respectable stats he has nearly double your skill and K/D because he isn't a legitimate player.

Edited July 28, 2016 by coolfaceginger

[FLDMARSHAL]

right like i said before guys there are tank hacks and aimbotters these hacks are given out for free and the reason for this is to stick it to us good bf4 players and there is nothing u can do about it except wine and complain they are undetected and some are they come in the server and if they are not banned straight away they will stay and exploit the fact they are hacking unless ur like me i was in a server called trc hanger21 last night and there was a guy using a chopper hack and i exposed him and all he did was laugh and said u carnt stop me and i have loads of friends who like hacking and carnt get caught hows that for gloating i was pissed off at this point so i came back to the xi server and played there so like i said good look in catching them film them all u like record all u like u will just get what i got the middle finger 

[dudebroman]

Interesting as that may be, nothing in there shows him using thermal through smoke or even seeing through smoke. Improved visibility is not the same as rending smoke useless. Again, there is no reason for this to happen.

 

I know it can be frustrating and somewhat hard to believe that a teammate/friend is cheating, but I promise you that he is. Have you ever noticed that despite his incredible aim, he has very poor battle tactics even though he has more hours than either of us? He simply runs into the field and hopes that his "aim" will do the work. It's painful to watch him scope a tank from across the field, or snap lock/track a player 20 feet away with an 8x scope, then stumble around the battlefield.

 

In any case, take solace in the fact that despite your hours and respectable stats he has nearly double your skill and K/D because he isn't a legitimate player.

Nah I take solace because I'm a shit player. I've a 0.7kd...ish...slowly improving. It was worse when I played on higher settings but Jay lit the way for me and low settings and I've gotten better since.

 

In fact, noticeably so...went from 0.5kd to 0.7kd in a matter of weeks...and I've over 10k kills and deaths. Now it's where it hovers.

 

Does that make me a hacker as well for improving my kd so much in such a short time?

[coolfaceginger]

Nah I take solace because I'm a shit player. I've a 0.7kd...ish...slowly improving. It was worse when I played on higher settings but Jay lit the way for me and low settings and I've gotten better since.

 

In fact, noticeably so...went from 0.5kd to 0.7kd in a matter of weeks...and I've over 10k kills and deaths. Now it's where it hovers.

 

Does that make me a hacker as well for improving my kd so much in such a short time?

 

That comment was aimed at Freiheit. And no, my findings are based on video evidence not speculation from K/D spikes, although .5 to .7 is hardly something to worry about. At .7 Meldun has more than 4x your K/D. You would need more than 20,000 kills without dying to match Meldun, just to put things in perspective. So no, I don't think anyone is accusing you.

 

Additionally, K/D is a poor indicator of whether or not someone bots. I've seen players who are even or negative and clearly aimbotting or have been PB banned. There are also legitimate players who have higher than 3:1 K/D. It's a meaningless stat; sometimes wildly high accuracy or HS % is a good indicator, but video evidence is best.

 

I'm not "out to get" anyone. I'm not jealous of his skill. I just went 23-0 on a server without noticing while playing the objective, so I'm not saying his score or K/D is impossible. Although I do it much, much less often then meldun does. I just noticed some suspicious behavior, so rather than derp and hackusate I spectated, and I saw something that to me and many others is a clear indicator of a bot. If you don't think that is clear evidence despite all of the spectator shortcomings, then I doubt anything other than obvious troll hackers will be convincing enough. Those guys I don't mind, they get banned in minutes or hours. But these guys.. the sneaky ones who try to cover a bot are the real dirtbags. It is very easy these days to run one and look legit, and I'm tempted to every day to prove my point, but I put faith in the admins to act when stuff like this is presented. When these things get by it's just less and less motivation to play legitimately.

Edited July 28, 2016 by coolfaceginger

[JAYsus_NL]

I'm not "out to get" anyone. I'm not jealous of his skill. I just went 23-0 on a server without noticing while playing the objective, so I'm not saying his score or K/D is impossible. Although I do it much, much less often then meldun does. I just noticed some suspicious behavior, so rather than derp and hackusate I spectated, and I saw something that to me and many others is a clear indicator of a bot. If you don't think that is clear evidence despite all of the spectator shortcomings, then I doubt anything other than obvious troll hackers will be convincing enough. Those guys I don't mind, they get banned in minutes or hours. But these guys.. the sneaky ones who try to cover a bot are the real dirtbags. It is very easy these days to run one and look legit, and I'm tempted to every day to prove my point, but I put faith in the admins to act when stuff like this is presented. When these things get by it's just less and less motivation to play legitimately.

 

I suggest you spec and record more then. If it is clear someone is hacking, i`ll be the first to hit the banhammer. Believe me if i say i litterally got hours of gameplay form certain players. The ones that cheated are lo9ng gone. The ones i doubt can stay a bit longer, so i can get enough proof. 

The small clip you provided is not enough for me to ban a player. Never has, never will. 

 

I can give you my word that if something like this id presented to our admin team, we discuss it and i can promise you, there is enough gametime and experience in our admin team to see if someone is legit or not.

 

Also, i would ask you to not take things on our server to the ingame chat. That only stirs things up. (I saw a crapload of people talking about the clip). Rather hop in to our TS and contact an admin, or indeed, make a post on the forums like you did. 

[coolfaceginger]

Unfortunately I don't have the time to follow someone around and gather footage. Now that he is on notice I'm very sure that he won't do anything suspicious like this in the near future. You already have the footage, you know what his gameplay is like. I have footage too, but nothing convincing enough to say it's a bot. Yes he snaps to targets but this can just be written off as skill, even though in my opinion it isn't. I knew I needed to gather something that couldn't be written off as skill or luck. If he saw him before the smoke, ok sure it was skill. If he was spraying in the area, ok that was lucky. But he snaps without ever seeing a target and shoots him right in the head. That's an aimbot.

 

When you find something like this it should be beyond doubt proof of a bot. I have snapped to targets, I'm aware of that possibility as a legitimate player. But I have never in my 1600 hours snapped to a player and headshotted through smoke. And you can watch some of my clips.. most are unlisted, but I've pulled some pretty crazy shots. Always on people you can clearly see, regardless of your settings.

 

Ultimately I really don't care if you ban him or not. I'm not trying to convince you that he is, I'm telling you that he is. I barely play this server, and I barely know that guy. I am experienced in the game, and have caught my share of botters, and am telling you that shot isn't possible legitimately. You know that shot isn't possible legitimately, but your friendship has you in denial. I'm trying to help you guys out by giving you clear evidence that the game breaking, rage quit inducing, 50-1 attack chopper dude isn't legit. The server will be better off without him, and while someone shouldn't be banned for skill alone, in my opinion you finally have the evidence you were looking for to get rid of this guy and make 98% of the server happier for it. There's a reason several of you have hours of footage. You all had that gut feeling he was, maybe just never got as lucky as I did with the timing.

[tsw 8.5]

right like i said before guys there are tank hacks and aimbotters these hacks are given out for free and the reason for this is to stick it to us good bf4 players and there is nothing u can do about it except wine and complain they are undetected and some are they come in the server and if they are not banned straight away they will stay and exploit the fact they are hacking unless ur like me i was in a server called trc hanger21 last night and there was a guy using a chopper hack and i exposed him and all he did was laugh and said u carnt stop me and i have loads of friends who like hacking and carnt get caught hows that for gloating i was pissed off at this point so i came back to the xi server and played there so like i said good look in catching them film them all u like record all u like u will just get what i got the middle finger 

 

 

and most just think he is just a good player ..how often do you here that shit ..

[HONG_KONG_SHOEY]

I have allways played in low settings and I can't see through smoke .

Boring .

[7Toes]

[FLDMARSHAL]

oh and u carnt go on stats like i had a realy crap grafix card and my stats were verry poor but since i got my new 8gig ati card wow what a difference in my game play and stats so yes and i must say i enjoy bf4 more now 

[dudebroman]

Unfortunately I don't have the time to follow someone around and gather footage. Now that he is on notice I'm very sure that he won't do anything suspicious like this in the near future. You already have the footage, you know what his gameplay is like. I have footage too, but nothing convincing enough to say it's a bot. Yes he snaps to targets but this can just be written off as skill, even though in my opinion it isn't. I knew I needed to gather something that couldn't be written off as skill or luck. If he saw him before the smoke, ok sure it was skill. If he was spraying in the area, ok that was lucky. But he snaps without ever seeing a target and shoots him right in the head. That's an aimbot.

 

When you find something like this it should be beyond doubt proof of a bot. I have snapped to targets, I'm aware of that possibility as a legitimate player. But I have never in my 1600 hours snapped to a player and headshotted through smoke. And you can watch some of my clips.. most are unlisted, but I've pulled some pretty crazy shots. Always on people you can clearly see, regardless of your settings.

 

Ultimately I really don't care if you ban him or not. I'm not trying to convince you that he is, I'm telling you that he is. I barely play this server, and I barely know that guy. I am experienced in the game, and have caught my share of botters, and am telling you that shot isn't possible legitimately. You know that shot isn't possible legitimately, but your friendship has you in denial. I'm trying to help you guys out by giving you clear evidence that the game breaking, rage quit inducing, 50-1 attack chopper dude isn't legit. The server will be better off without him, and while someone shouldn't be banned for skill alone, in my opinion you finally have the evidence you were looking for to get rid of this guy and make 98% of the server happier for it. There's a reason several of you have hours of footage. You all had that gut feeling he was, maybe just never got as lucky as I did with the timing.

You know what's rage inducing?

 

Jaysus going 52-0 in round because he is in beast mode with mortars, vehicles and guns.

 

Cosmic horse going 40-3 because she is terrorising the map with her mortar.

 

Zigge going 35-6 because he is a fucking power house with the maps and weapons in general.

 

Devs going 60-9 on locker with the f2000 because he is on another level on that map and weapon.

 

Cwest hitting 100-3 in a round with a chopper.

 

Deanluxray going 37-2 on metro with the f2000.

 

None of those guys hack, but when they're on form, they're fucking insane to play against. In the same rounds, I can be on the winning team and want to rage quit because I know I can't match that level of ability.

 

Oh. And your entire post on the matter can be summarised...

 

I think he hacks. You should ban him. If I had my own server I'd ban him. You should too.

 

If you think he's suspect, go to metabans, submit evidence of spectating between 5 and 10 rounds over a few days, and then let them decide.

Edited July 29, 2016 by netphlix_n_chill

[DuckyofDeath123]

I see I'm missing out on all the good drama again.

 

I play on low details, because I like to see shit. I have NEVER EVER seen those columns of lingering black smoke you have in your clip there. They do not exist for me. I was utterly unaware that they were a thing. That means that if the zonks also play on tryhard settings, which they do, then they also never see that smoke.

They probably see what I see, which is a big poof and about a second of vaguely transparent smoke. And you can shoot right through that at people and if you're HMGing and the other guy is either prone or peeking over a sand dune, then the only thing you can hit is the head. Which makes the headshot not only possible but likely.

 

Aimbots do not need 15 shots with an HMG to headshot a player under 200m away. That, the shortness of the video, and the fact that this "snapping" you speak off at the 10 second mark doesn't actually HAPPEN in your video at any point makes me think that, as usual, someone who doesn't actually know a lot about what hacks look like fell into the common trap of thinking good players must be hackers.

You've caught many hackers you say. Well if you consider this proof of hacks, you will find thousands of them. I'll be one. Jay might be. Cosmic deffo will be, every Zonk, most of the decent players that call our server home will be. I think you see where I'm going with this.

 

 

 

As for FLDMARHAL... conspiracy theories, unrelated events on another server and vague allegations that there is a magic supergroup of secret hack providers out to get all us legit players... holy hell man, that sounds intense. Have you considered writing a political action plan to blame either the EU or Mexicans?

[coolfaceginger]

netphlix, I wasn't in that game, just watched the second half of it. The players were the ones who were raging. Also I'm sure none of the players in question have games consistently in that range, while meldun does.

 

Ducky, no one has provided evidence of seeing through smoke on low settings, so if you haven't seen it, I suggest you play more and/or pay more attention. 

 

He locks the guy through smoke, goes over the hill without moving the reticle, then starts shooting. The player might have been behind the hill, or moving horizontally which is a weak spot for bots. Also note the snap to the middle of the hill right before the lock through smoke. Not really a reason for it other than a player behind it.

 

You must be unaware of the current state of cheats. Nowadays you can scan the battlefield, then toggle any button you like to lock to a player. It can be a constant lock/track or simply a snap to target. Someone can scan around toggling the button and snap to targets at any rate (fast, medium, slow) and to any part of the body they want. I suggest you guys do more research into what cheats are capable of these days, because it seems like outside of the obvious troll hackers that snap/HS 15 targets in 10 seconds, you have no clue.

 

But it is good to know that if I ever wanted to I could get an ESP/aimbot and do the ole throw smoke on myself and lock all day, and you guys will just post crying baby gifs to anyone who accuses me. Lmao, this place is a joke.

[nosleep]

comon man! this is not even a dodgy kill.. its a very very easy and clear to explain kill....

 

ill try keep it simple... cos you are so sure this is proof of hacking... so i want to be clear.

 

He is in a tank..... there are infintry on the tops of both hills... using thermals he can see the glow of the 1st guy on top of the left hill.... as the turrets swings that way.. it goes past the enemy player laying down on top of the 1st hill on left (cos his aim is not perfect and it take him a split sec to accurately aquire the target).. the aim then swings back 1/2 inch to aquire target, shoots with HMG on tank turret... omg he killed a guy with the HMG after seeing him on thermals and the enemy was ontop of a hill  aka: skylining.

 

NO BIGGY AT ALL ON THE 1ST GUY ON A HILL....  unless you are so desperate to see hacking that you ignore all the facts.. but hey... ppl who cry hack often need it to be true for the sake of their own ego, because their insecurity/ego can not believe that they are such poor players in comparison to the really good players that there are.

 

the magical kill through the smoke.. ok lets look at it.

 

He has just killed a guy on the hill top, which was an easy kill no crazy skill needed, never mind need hacks for it lolo.. but anyways.. he moves forwards towards the plume of smoke where he has just seen a tank go down and to the left of it.. and can see enemy around that hill....

 

he then.. with the HMG on turret... now this is important... because he DOES NOT SNAP TO THE TARGET BEHIND SMOKE LOL... he actually takes 10 shots... TEN SHOTS .. before he hits the target you say he ''locks to through smoke''  ... which is bullshit mate.

 

He traces the skyline (or projected skyline as he can only see the left of the hill slope as it rises to its peak, the peak is behind the smoke).  and if you just watch... you see him trace the turret from left to right accross what he thinks is the top of that hill where he knows there is enemy cos he has seen them running around that hill just seconds before...

 

he traces the top of the hill from left to right and AFTER 10 SHOTS.. COUNT THEM.... TEN SHOT!!!  then he finally hits a guy...

 

OMG WHAT A MIRICLE SHOT...

 

get a grip mate.  you think we dont spectate our players??  especially the regular ones??  you think we dont have literally 100's of hours of spectate video on our regular good players and we just let them run rampant with aim bot  and all this shit???

 

 

he doesnt ''lock to targets''  his turret moves in a snapy fasion... but not snap onto target.. snap then adjust cos he is you know??  doing it himself.. 10 shots through smoke at a hill top that prob has enemy, after 10 shots strafing turret from left to right, he hits a guy and you scream hack??

 

lol

 

EDIT:  after the 1st kill on the guy you say he snap-locks on.. which he doesnt at all, he over swings and has to re-adjust, but hey, think what you like.  He then drives forwards, going towards the hill with smoke in front and over a bump.. you say

''he snaps-locks to target and the turret/aim doesnt move as he drives''

.. but it clearly does.. it swings down and to the left and he pulls it back up... remember he is the main driver using  co-axial .. so he knows the movement on the tank body vs his own turret.. he is not the 2nd gunner ... but thats irrelivant... the turret does move!!

 

just wanted to highlight another factual thing you said that is actually bullshit, as with your entire claim on this video... i dont know is he hacks mate.. im not god i cant know all undetectable hacks.. but i know 1 thing.

 

this video dont prove shit, but thanks for being yet another person who comes with extremely weak evidence claiming ''they know for sure'' and that we are all noobs cos we can see it like you do.. and we all took time out of our days, cos u know, we get paid for this right? to reply to you.. but you dont drop it.. continuing to claim this video is clear hacking, when its not even clear skill... it shows nothing.. all very easy to explain.. and every claim you make .. is bullshit.. ill list them.

 

1:  ''he snap locks to targets''-----

no he doesnt.. not once does his turret snap to a target and he is dead on target.. he has to micro adjust each time because yes, he snaps with left n right, but he never ''snap-locks'' watch more closely.. you will see him adjust cos he is not 100% on target.

 

2: '' he can see through the smoke and snap-locked to tagets behind smoke''-----

i just explained snap-lock and the fact he is not doing it, you are imagining it and missing the detail cos ur to blinded by your own need to be right.  the smoke?  he 100% does not snap-lock to anyone!! IT TAKE TEN SHOTS WHILE STRAFING THE TURRET TO KILL A GUY (with a co-axel HMG at basically close/mid range so very accurate and hard to miss when aimbot has ''snap-locked you to his head at close range) ... thats it.. end.  you think thats aim bot snap lock etc.. youre insane.

 

3:  ''the turret doesnt move at all while he moves forwards towards the hill with smoke in front''-------

yes it does.. again you are missing small details cos ur too focused on proving he IS HACKING, rather than looking at it impartially wih no bias.  

 

4: personal note -  we ban people for hacking all the time mate, but before we do it, we talk as a community of admins and between us all we decide if the evidence (which you have presented none of.. your video shows nothing but your own insecurities) is enough and then we decide. sometimes that decision is very clear and easy.. and sometimes it takes us weeks and months to build a case because often ppl we suspect are actually very good players and there becomes a thin line between jelousy and suspiscion and actual proof.

others have been able to monitor when we spectate them and they in some cases perform worse when being spectated, (meldun doesnt have this, he performs good consistantly, with could.. maybe.. just maybe.. mean he is a good player?  ikr crazy thought)..

but this alone is not enough. we require proof.. not cry baby claims easy to explain... if we listened to them without investigating it, without bias, ourselves.. we would 1: have no time to ourselves and 2: have no server except for a few ppl that are left who are such poor players that no one ever accused them of hacking.

 

you had a server or have a server? you did or do things differently there? so what?  you know then that there are a million claims by cry babies all day long and it should, to be honest, be easy for you to see the difference and watch this video without the blinkers you have.

 

befotre you attack the entire admin team just cos you dont like someone calling you a cry baby.. perhaps you should take a 2nd and 3rd look at the video you demand is proof and ask yourself these questions.

 

1: does he actually snap-lock to anything, or am i just imagining it and he actually has to adjust every time cos he is not 100% on target with each snap?

 

2: does he lock a guy through smoke or does he trace a hill top where he knows people are and then take TEN shots to hit someone??

 

once you have answered both of these.. then you will know why someone posted a cry baby gif.

 

take care, we here at xtremeidiots appreciate you caring about our server and wanting it to be a hacker free zone thats fun to play... we share that mentality but we think ''fun to play'' includes not just banning some guy cos he is good and someone has 1 kill on a video that looks a bid dodgy to them... because in order to stop people being unfairly banned or individual admins abusing their power because of unfair bias..... we actually require proof and that proof is vetted by our entire admin team.

 

Or maybe ill spectate you and the next time you get a lucky shot through smoke on an MCOM or towards a flag u know bad guys are at.. ill bad you through PB-GGC and then you will understand why we require proof.. not just bogus cry baby claims.

 

have a nice day.

Edited July 30, 2016 by nosleep