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Got my 2nd Moderna shot on Wednesday, Didn't think I would make it to see Friday


Ruggerxi

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10 hours ago, Sharpe said:

All I know is when you take some humans and inject fear and greed, the chances of something going wrong skyrocket. To me the individual needs to weigh up their own risk associated with contracting coronavirus and decide if the vaccine is a good idea for them. Telling a perfectly healthy 20 year old that has a minuscule risk to take any of the vaccines that from certain perspectives appear to have been rushed to market seems shortsighted. Iatrogenesis is real, there is no reason to risk potential life long complications if your risk is very low. On the other hand if you are an 80 year old diabetic heart disease patient it's probably a worthwhile risk.

The main reason this may seem rushed is because all the money needed was made immediately available to the developers.  The majority of time taken to develop a vaccine is in the funding of each round, as a company takes the hit themselves if there is a failure at any phase of development.  You then factor in that it is an MRNA vaccine, which has faster bulk production times & that shortens the timeline further.  Then with the POTUS implementing war production protocol & the timeline is shortened even further by pharmaceutical companies working together, along with any facility being needed at the disposal of the program.  This technology isn't new at all.  It's been studied, developed & in-use for several decades.  It's been used in cancer therapy for quite some time.  Your average Western citizen is gonna die from a Myocardial Infarct long before any vaccine.  Also, none of the purity or other quality control protocols were skipped; despite what the media circus (which makes money off hype & fear) would have one believe.  What I see is general statements of how 'something just isn't right', or 'it feels suspicious'.  What I don't see are any concrete examples of where developmental protocols have been skipped.

Edited by Timmah!
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21 hours ago, Timmah! said:

It was/is free for cash-payers.

Also if you have insurance.....

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Glad you are feeling better !!!!!

 

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16 hours ago, RobMc said:

Don't be scared Pengy, it's like Rob, you'll only feel a small prick  ?

It should be that big!!!  :db:

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8 hours ago, Timmah! said:

The main reason this may seem rushed is because all the money needed was made immediately available to the developers.  The majority of time taken to develop a vaccine is in the funding of each round, as a company takes the hit themselves if there is a failure at any phase of development.  You then factor in that it is an MRNA vaccine, which has faster bulk production times & that shortens the timeline further.  Then with the POTUS implementing war production protocol & the timeline is shortened even further by pharmaceutical companies working together, along with any facility being needed at the disposal of the program.  This technology isn't new at all.  It's been studied, developed & in-use for several decades.  It's been used in cancer therapy for quite some time.  Your average Western citizen is gonna die from a Myocardial Infarct long before any vaccine.  Also, none of the purity or other quality control protocols were skipped; despite what the media circus (which makes money off hype & fear) would have one believe.  What I see is general statements of how 'something just isn't right', or 'it feels suspicious'.  What I don't see are any concrete examples of where developmental protocols have been skipped.

It "feels suspicious" when they are trying to get perfectly healthy young people to take the vaccine for something that has almost no risk to them. This is easily explained by fear and greed however. Fear because "everyone must get the vaccine for everyone to be safe" which is really just a ruse for fattening wallets.

Even if all the usual protocols were followed, how long does it take for antibody dependent enhancement to develop? Prion disease? Autoimmunity? What about the narcolepsy that hundreds developed after the swine flu vaccine 10 years ago? Maybe these effects would have shown up by now, I haven't taken the extra step of researching this as personally I have no plans on getting vaccinated. I do hope the vaccine is very successful with minimal complications. Very few medical interventions are without risk though. So where you are on the continuum of risk should play a role in your choosing whether to receive the vaccine or not. I see a lot of people say they'd rather have vaccine side effects for a day or two than the virus. Well how about if you are 20 and the virus is a slightly raised temperature for a few days and not much else or the risk of lifelong narcolespy (hypothetically)? Not really a good trade off. The decision is perhaps more difficult in the 50-60 range where risk somewhat increases relative to those that are younger.

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Be careful you two, intelligent dialogue attracts haters, use simpler phrases please  🤣

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16 minutes ago, Sharpe said:

It "feels suspicious" when they are trying to get perfectly healthy young people to take the vaccine for something that has almost no risk to them. This is easily explained by fear and greed however. Fear because "everyone must get the vaccine for everyone to be safe" which is really just a ruse for fattening wallets.

Even if all the usual protocols were followed, how long does it take for antibody dependent enhancement to develop? Prion disease? Autoimmunity? What about the narcolepsy that hundreds developed after the swine flu vaccine 10 years ago? Maybe these effects would have shown up by now, I haven't taken the extra step of researching this as personally I have no plans on getting vaccinated. I do hope the vaccine is very successful with minimal complications. Very few medical interventions are without risk though. So where you are on the continuum of risk should play a role in your choosing whether to receive the vaccine or not. I see a lot of people say they'd rather have vaccine side effects for a day or two than the virus. Well how about if you are 20 and the virus is a slightly raised temperature for a few days and not much else or the risk of lifelong narcolespy (hypothetically)? Not really a good trade off. The decision is perhaps more difficult in the 50-60 range where risk somewhat increases relative to those that are younger.

Looking for comparative incidence rates with a control.  If we're just going by anecdotes, I'm not hearing any mass die-off of the frail & elderly, since most of them have been vaccinated with both doses.  The oldest & weakest.  Most likely not passing it on to others is a great reason.  It's a harmless strand of RNA;  there's no reverse transcription taking place, which is one of a myriad of bogey men claims being thrown against the wall to see what sticks.  Shit, over here, outright lies are willingly taken as the truth just for shits & giggles.  Any partially-built spike proteins from the in vivo algorithm are completely harmless.  To save time on generalizations, the only thing that may be cause for any concern would be this novel lipid that is positively charged so that it encapsulates the RNA strand, allowing it to be delivered to the cytosol, intact by the immune system.  It has a less than desirable half life & going to produce free radicals until metabolized by the liver.  The part that sorta threw that initially-cited expert's opinions off the road for me were when she said she'd be too busy with youtube bookings for requested future consultations, & when she started discussing the potential for the lipids to be an environmental danger when shat out & flushed into the sewer system.  One obvious reason that is contradictory to her previsous statements is explicit based upon her own previous assertions.  Several more are implied for manifold reasons.  Could go on, but I gotta go make more $$$ before I turn into the swamp thing or some shit.

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Oh oh, you're in trouble Bro ?

'when shat out & flushed into the sewer system'

picture coming soon followed by a rant, be prepared

 

lmfao 🤣

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1 hour ago, Timmah! said:

Looking for comparative incidence rates with a control.  If we're just going by anecdotes, I'm not hearing any mass die-off of the frail & elderly, since most of them have been vaccinated with both doses.  The oldest & weakest.  Most likely not passing it on to others is a great reason.  It's a harmless strand of RNA;  there's no reverse transcription taking place, which is one of a myriad of bogey men claims being thrown against the wall to see what sticks.  Shit, over here, outright lies are willingly taken as the truth just for shits & giggles.  Any partially-built spike proteins from the in vivo algorithm are completely harmless.  To save time on generalizations, the only thing that may be cause for any concern would be this novel lipid that is positively charged so that it encapsulates the RNA strand, allowing it to be delivered to the cytosol, intact by the immune system.  It has a less than desirable half life & going to produce free radicals until metabolized by the liver.  The part that sorta threw that initially-cited expert's opinions off the road for me were when she said she'd be too busy with youtube bookings for requested future consultations, & when she started discussing the potential for the lipids to be an environmental danger when shat out & flushed into the sewer system.  One obvious reason that is contradictory to her previsous statements is explicit based upon her own previous assertions.  Several more are implied for manifold reasons.  Could go on, but I gotta go make more $$$ before I turn into the swamp thing or some shit.

The risk of serious complications may well be minimal or non-existent. I see no reason to take the chance at this stage.  They said Pandemrix was safe before it was taken off the market. Why were the serious life altering side effects (for a small minority) not discovered during the clinical trials before it was brought to market? Does the human species understand physiology well enough to say with absolute certainty that "x" treatment won't cause complications? 

I don't get medical interventions to protect others. If they want protection, they can take the vaccine themselves if they think it is a good idea. For the small minority that can't, sorry still not doing it. I haven't seen the massive drive for personal responsibility in all this to reduce obesity rates for example, which is a major risk factor for dieing from coronavirus.
 

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3 hours ago, Sharpe said:

risk of lifelong narcolespy

 

My old lady says I sleep my life away anyhow !!   She is a,  up at the crack ass of dawn person !!   Me..   I will sleep as long as I need !!  On another note I worked with a guy who had it, and he ran some dangerous equipment !!  You could be talking to him and all of sudden he was snoring !!  He drove too !!  Never fell asleep at the wheel.  But then again he lived maybe 10 minutes from work.

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3 hours ago, Sharpe said:

The risk of serious complications may well be minimal or non-existent. I see no reason to take the chance at this stage.  They said Pandemrix was safe before it was taken off the market. Why were the serious life altering side effects (for a small minority) not discovered during the clinical trials before it was brought to market? Does the human species understand physiology well enough to say with absolute certainty that "x" treatment won't cause complications? 

I don't get medical interventions to protect others. If they want protection, they can take the vaccine themselves if they think it is a good idea. For the small minority that can't, sorry still not doing it. I haven't seen the massive drive for personal responsibility in all this to reduce obesity rates for example, which is a major risk factor for dieing from coronavirus.
 

So it's settled then:  You will start eating more cheese burgers & get vaccinated.  None of this has produced an example of skipped steps vis a vis 7toe's post.

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4 hours ago, Timmah! said:

So it's settled then:  You will start eating more cheese burgers & get vaccinated.  None of this has produced an example of skipped steps vis a vis 7toe's post.

"And if this DNA is not digested well enough, if residues are left, this harbours risks – I’ll come back to the risks from DNA residues, but the activity of the enzymes has to be monitored well and at the end you need to have a pure RNA without any more DNA. And that is not the case. BioNTech has admitted that there are DNA contaminants."

"So. Requirements were also made relating to the fact that they have not conducted a transport verification study. This means they have no idea whether the vaccine is still viable after transportation. That is currently being performed."

"It was found that the integrity of the RNA always varies in the batches that had been made. I will come back to that again. There needs to be a standard that is always the same for each batch. This should be used as the reference to measure the standard. And they only have this of course for the processes of the clinical phase. Now we have to generate a new standard for the new manufacturing processes, i.e., for the commercial sales. That hasn’t been done yet, they are in the process of doing that now."

"So it is theoretically possible that this linearised DNA that is in there as a contaminant could integrate into the host’s cell nucleus in a dividing cell, linearised DNA is optimal for integration. Circular DNA is not. DNA from bacteria is circular and is not as easy to integrate. It happens, but not so often. But as soon as you have a situation like we do here, it will happen more often. That is the risk. I didn’t really want to get into what can happen if this is the case: genes can be switched on and off, upregulated and downregulated, cancer can develop – there are a lot more possibilities. So this contamination definitely has to be reduced."
 

"WW: But these are processes that are probably not the same in all patients. Whether this happens at all is stochastic at the most, and if it does happen, the results are probably also dependent on each individual and what else is going on in their cells. So one can’t say put that in and this is what will happen, these are eventualities – if a million or so and so many thousands of people are vaccinated, then one can perhaps say with a certain degree of probability after 10 or 20 years whether something will happen or not.

VSK: Yes.

WW: With some things perhaps after 3 or 4 years. But one needs some time to be able to detect such effects clinically.

VSK: That’s exactly right. One never finds a group that all have the same mutation, this varies in people - exactly."

"VSK: That’s fine. So I’ll continue. There are also contaminants with regard to the lipids (30.32). There are two new lipids, they have focused on them. One is ALC-0315, that is the cationic lipid, and the other is ALC-0159, the PEGylated peptide, the PEG component. And they have found that the end product – that there are contaminants in the end product in some batches. They don’t know where this is coming from, probably from the cationic lipid."

"The EMA Committee issued complaints about 20 points in total regarding Good Manufacturing Practice. These are very extensive points, it will be quite a challenge to manage this in half a year I’d say, and they have issued 23 recommendations for further development of the quality of the of the product. And then there are another six pages at the end: I’ll quote from that: “The assessment of the safety risk is considered acceptable; there are theoretical calculations of worst-case concentrations from residues from the manufacturing process, but these have been found to be below established safety limits”. What this means is that our health depends on theoretical calculations, and not on actual tests in practice."


Sorry to copy and paste so much, that's about half way into it. Could easily copy more. None of this fills me with confidence. As I stated I can't speak to the veracity of these claims. If she is telling the truth, it looks like things have been rushed. Personally given my own personal level of risk, I see no reason to risk potential side effects. I don't have the expertise to know if she is making up these claims or exaggerating them. If there is even a small chance she is telling the truth that is plenty for me. 
 

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You boys worry me, you think too much, come over to Rob's world, let me give you an analogy:-

You're out on the town and spot a gorgeous girl giving you the eye, do you

1/. Wonder whether her underwear is clean, if she has brushed her teeth, worry that she may be gay, worry about a gorilla of a boyfriend, she may be carrying an std, will she be intelligent and can you afford a taxi ?

2/. Go back to hers and shag her ?

 

ps Thickiam, analogy has nothing to do with your asshole

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1 hour ago, RobMc said:

You boys worry me, you think too much, come over to Rob's world, let me give you an analogy:-

You're out on the town and spot a gorgeous girl giving you the eye, do you

1/. Wonder whether her underwear is clean, if she has brushed her teeth, worry that she may be gay, worry about a gorilla of a boyfriend, she may be carrying an std, will she be intelligent and can you afford a taxi ?

2/. Go back to hers and shag her ?

 

ps Thickiam, analogy has nothing to do with your asshole

we do not make it back to hir place because i have a shaggin wagon! ;) 

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9 minutes ago, MtDeW said:

we do not make it back to hir place because i have a shaggin wagon! ;) 

That's the trouble with Fiat 500's, always breaking down

Fix It Again Tony

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Just now, RobMc said:

That's the trouble with Fiat 500's, always breaking down

Fix It Again Tony

IMG_20200608_152855814_HDR.thumb.jpg.22a5b28462a172c24cf6379fa1ba5156.jpg 

F350 fuck fiat! lol ;) 

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@Sharpe  She doesn't 'come back' to most of the shit she says.  That to which she does return is overhyped fear mongering for attention with sins of omission, that's why she's too busy booked with youtube appearances to return to further explain herself when invited.  Every BIG danger she drums up is 'theoretical' & nothing that's happened.  She really jumped the shark when she said taking a shit might pose a hazard vis a vis the sewer systems.  Your sole reference is one which slants some cherry-picked theoretical that's never before happened in decades of practical application.  She's doing what amounts to lying in her cherry picking & omission of hundreds of millions of people that have never had any of these worst case scenarios occur during viral & cancer treatments.  It's all very disingenuous. None of the batches developed & used for vaccines have these contaminants.  I've read the whole article, more than once.  She's talking out both sides of her mouth & omitting what she knows are purity protocols that are used in end-stage production.  I could go & copy & paste all of the information from the CDC, NIH, but it's all there if current facts are what's to be discussed, and not some what if's from one person in reference to early stage development.  But I suspect the interest level will drop-off sharply.   

Edited by Timmah!
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9 hours ago, Timmah! said:

@Sharpe  She doesn't 'come back' to most of the shit she says.  That to which she does return is overhyped fear mongering for attention with sins of omission, that's why she's too busy booked with youtube appearances to return to further explain herself when invited.  Every BIG danger she drums up is 'theoretical' & nothing that's happened.  She really jumped the shark when she said taking a shit might pose a hazard vis a vis the sewer systems.  Your sole reference is one which slants some cherry-picked theoretical that's never before happened in decades of practical application.  She's doing what amounts to lying in her cherry picking & omission of hundreds of millions of people that have never had any of these worst case scenarios occur during viral & cancer treatments.  It's all very disingenuous. None of the batches developed & used for vaccines have these contaminants.  I've read the whole article, more than once.  She's talking out both sides of her mouth & omitting what she knows are purity protocols that are used in end-stage production.  I could go & copy & paste all of the information from the CDC, NIH, but it's all there if current facts are what's to be discussed, and not some what if's from one person in reference to early stage development.  But I suspect the interest level will drop-off sharply.   

Well I hope you are right. There are other treatments (pandemrix which I mentioned) that had major issues after coming to market that give me pause. I see no reason to personally take the risk, even if it is minute. As stated previously, that equation changes the older you get. I'm sure the websites you mention paint the vaccines in a very positive light, as I'm sure they did 10 or so years ago. I wouldn't mind seeing the links, I may even have read some of them already. You asked 7toes for some evidence that steps were skipped so I provided some evidence. That doesn't make it fact either. Everyone hopefully gets to make their own minds up, but I guess we will see on that front.

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9 minutes ago, Sharpe said:

Well I hope you are right. There are other treatments (pandemrix which I mentioned) that had major issues after coming to market that give me pause. I see no reason to personally take the risk, even if it is minute. As stated previously, that equation changes the older you get. I'm sure the websites you mention paint the vaccines in a very positive light, as I'm sure they did 10 or so years ago. I wouldn't mind seeing the links, I may even have read some of them already. You asked 7toes for some evidence that steps were skipped so I provided some evidence. That doesn't make it fact either. Everyone hopefully gets to make their own minds up, but I guess we will see on that front.

Nuh uhh.  When I got some time.  THink I mentioned the CDC & NIH.  Just google vaccine steps cdc or something.  You do know at least 40% of the population's been exposed to it?  

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3 hours ago, Timmah! said:

You do know at least 40% of the population's been exposed to it?  

Same for me at the local park buddy

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So that's why all the d0gs scatter when they see you comin'.

 

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https://www.thebernician.net/covid-1984-foi-request-uk-government-admits-virus-doesnt-exist/?cf_chl_jschl_tk=cf8dba5da721a176cacc984458a54d32f180754d-1603988378-0-AbwDek64AEc-g0ey_-zDpM2ZNjbyCn2OOPMdNRaaLnwGcNGF5eZox29rcQOwaTESkvZ5S-JNdmmFigyBaW3N5mpqjLfbQ6HS48L9AAmrxegLj1t2lJpffIYeLVN8C7M4EE97BkHCSxgcvIKgGftIP2pyjJ-4QXZzX3qPqokNxhXOqdscGN_4TbpzFwPb4s2QHBJMyzqLedlvO_QYTLPX_yZ-kxy7QbUWc_1NJ3Wx_YK4V_ilc8nXrQyUsVY_0mlL2PH_r146LcKTs76XnOQXW5KcqCJt7Uum9F6IXjYdTJ_k0k9Adlb-aziq03jGPdeN14zuAHtWX7HL3rSApL_AxH0nw4GG2IcGgEOYvdiJc5nW&__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=f1ef6fd919a79d3364ccfdcecb180fc245a05f7b-1604328182-0-AWWWGMrcM_ZMNCx7K3GYVdpA1DbxULMCH74GYaPDtcxLdInmXtJdAYSGuINOkDfq7innIGZCLYQIokxupDWKJqJwsy3vKCAilZrbNXzLFdCoeOq3pG9XIMSt1P9FUL-sDcC4l2rZ-i4GWtJIgizsBsO_LwmY6cDcvd0jmurdgB4kgPr7c45gLnc8iAJM28r9E1isxRZpK7de80cjNutDLr8YRdZMWB0IAMaWyNuhnmrklxJwtHp5D3UWsEQgCMwoAUF-6FW5WNltUWGhB8jlCZjNIbIzYixqa51hBCSe1Cg7MUObtcIafhTNwTVuXfdQTObtkIRtCmXGjvcnch0bw7ePBnZjzHGLQ3kjvGhJn63MCYDp6e3pyKkIltv8ijrDHmOYs6jYAnMAvEYzCia3cptfjmiGS-ipD5n3QX5urIRZkOVvSVpG_r0pKXm_y4v4bhLoeBXDzoy931n3p38fm3nHw9R67Rg6zc-dBoTbBENsbIQwXwuIVvo_xVCObZ4phjMjUDthXUzu1lJPkjr5eUd997xKB01AHPrAWu-rhhT9lCCDoXZ_MOgfjSoAVS0EV5bQflNgL1c3Qt437DhDXNFIWiTV3H70dWNvIPr58LWEel02eoolI5Zvzqc6QLAo36TwAmf4v1-RNXElOulXvWlDUhgOd5LzSx0eS0ScfZJqsWwzeQ98pNb4A0rcsyB44QudyY5ue2Ji4qKlbjIrWvQjJirdDRStoy-mclvmYanhUiy9WpA4fOLAY4-__6T593B0wcOA7YAygugWGTGKSRJWdKsrSnSxJDlnJuv4i-Ts8ilAHqxiPmTMzgxIcz5QmJX2_efCEWKaS_Hp3w-3PIad79vQulwhpQx4Si025PBHffeF1jLRVTqybzCeYLFimt8w-KDpQAEyxrX3O8yG3t-u-Xuhx3cFjkrHvi4gXcte

 

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/doctors-and-nurses-giving-the-covid-19-vaccine-will-be-tried-as-war-criminals_7tNEBnZogbdlEXu.html

This info might be to late for some but hey i tried hi hammer

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OMG

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