Shamu

Dare I try to watch one more time? Right now I am ahead on making use of my time, I did not watch Spain vs Portugal. Wise use of time on my part. Germany vs Italy I may be compelled to watch. My son-in-law is from Italy, he'll have his blue shirt on, a little home made wine and be at his bocce club for the game. I suppose I have a moral duty to support him. If Italy wins my daughter may have to go pour him in the car to drive him home,

Forum Fact. The longer the paragraphs, the longer the post, the less likely it will be read or understood. In general most forum participants are here for "Headline Style News". Short and sweet, get to the point and then get gone. Saw the above comments in a newspaper article from a college psych course, I forget the college but think it was Ivy League. I tend to agree with the study, It should be like business writing, to the point with no window dressing. Fill in blanks latter if needed.

Hans, I think that is all we are both doing, explaining why things are different in each persons country. It is all just for a better understanding of each persons culture and way of life. It is not about agreeing, disagreeing, judging or arguing, just showing the logical explanation of differences so each of us is better understood and informed. hmm that was me saying this, not hans You know, I thought I had buggered up the quote. I try to delete parts of a quote for better clarity. I thought I was quoting Hans, when I posted it came up CHKN and I went back and edited it to Hans. Call it a Senior Moment, that is my standard excuse for errors on my part.

Understand not all of us own weapons because we live in fear or need to protect ourselves. I own guns because I enjoy shooting and the family activities that come from it. Also I just like guns, to me they are works of art and mechanical genius. It is something I find hard to fully explain but my ownership is not because I feel a need to defend myself. Some people collect art, some cars, some dolls. I like to collect guns. I do not live in fear here in the U.S. To me it is the greatest country on earth as evidenced by the amount of immigrants who have come here to live. We are very, very young for a country when compared to European countries but by damn we have come a long way on the backs of immigrants who left their homes for a better life and came here to live. We are a very long way from a no-mans land which we were not to long ago, We have gone from woods, fields and native Americans to become perhaps the most powerful country on earth. That is quite an accomplishment and I am proud of it and very proud to be a citizen of this country.

Hans, I think that is all we are both doing, explaining why things are different in each persons country. It is all just for a better understanding of each persons culture and way of life. It is not about agreeing, disagreeing, judging or arguing, just showing the logical explanation of differences so each of us is better understood and informed.

I beg your pardon, I happen to live outside Philly near Valley Forge. I usually say Philly because that is where I was born and raised and most persons are geographically deficient but have a slight chance of knowing where Philly is located.

CHKN, it is important to understand that in our country the "right to bear arms" is protected by the second amendment in our Constitution and I quote: The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights. The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the United States of America. The Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787, by the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and ratified by conventions in eleven states. It went into effect on March 4, 1789[1]. The first ten constitutional amendments ratified by three-fourths of the states in 1791 are known as the Bill of Rights. This is something held sacred in our country and has been questioned in courts multiple times but never changed. It has always been upheld in court as one of our basic rights as citizens of the United Stated. Neither the Federal, State or Local Governments can draft laws that violate any of our rights as protected in our Constitution. Many have tried, all have failed. You would need to understand the importance and basis of the United States Constitution to fully appreciate the importance of this document. You simply cannot draft a law that infringes on our rights. It is very difficult to amend or make changes to our Bill of Rights, Our Constitution and Bill of Rights has served this country well and is well worth protecting. History lesson over.

Must be hell living in NJ as a gun owner.

While I am a member of the NRA I do support gun registration and the existing requirement to be cleared of any legal or medical issues that prohibit gun ownership. My position is contrary to the NRA. I would even like to see a ability test be required as there is before getting a drivers license if the intent is to carry the gun in a public environment such as hunting or concealed carry. In PA we do have a Hunter Safety requirement to get a hunting license but it does not involve actual handling of a gun, just classroom coverage of rules, regulations and safety. Also understand you just don't walk in and buy a pistol and walk out the door. Your records are checked via a federal call center before sale can be approved. If the gun is kept only at home I would not support a ability testing requirement. There should be no ability test for a gun bought for home protection.

So, where do you draw the line on when a person can have a gun? Do you just pick an age where regardless of ability or maturity they can have a gun? Or is your opinion reflecting the culture of your country, Netherlands, which is highly restrictive on gun ownership. That could bias your opinion. Here in the USA we have protected our right to bear arms as stated in our Constitution, your loss that you have lost yours. You have no constitutional protection for gun ownership in the Netherlands, here we do. That is a very big difference in how law is applied in each country. In your country they would lock me up and throw away the key. Here I am within the law and protected by our Constitution from any law threatening my rights.

The key here is teaching the kids responsible and safe use of firearms. And when you say "kids" the age varies with each child, you just can't pick and age and say he can handle guns, you must judge the maturity of each kid before exposing them to guns. All of my kids learned first from me but each one also attended safety courses given at my local gun club and by state certified instructors. I am now exposing my oldest grand son to shooting. He is 11 and showing good maturity and follows direction well.......... the bugger even corrected me once and he was right. We started on BB guns, moved to single shot 22's and now are on semi automatic 22's. He will also be enrolled in the safety courses this summer. I will make it my responsibility to get him there and back home. Also much of the focus in this topic has been on self defense. Do not overlook the bonding that can occur with adult and child through hunting or recreational shooting. I am 68 years old and still actively participates with my sons and daughter in shooting sports. Many parents fail to have that type of in-common recreational activity with their kids. To me the activity and dialogue we have with each other over shooting is worth every minute and dollar I invested in time or money on shooting. Talk to my kids and they will tell you some of their best memories are of days we spent on the range or in the woods with our guns. BTW, none of us hunt anymore but we sure do punch a lot of holes in paper or a variety of other types of targets. And hopefully none of them ever have to use a firearm to defend themselves but at least they will be prepared properly if the need arises. I should also mention we all have concealed carry permits. Personally I rarely carry a concealed gun but my sons carry regularly. It's their choice and their right.

I have been one lucky SOB, I went into the service a little after high school, Nov. 1961, I was out in Nov. 1964 just when Nam was warming up. I had great duty and got to travel much more than most Army personnel. Many of my high school friends and team mates procrastinated, got drafted well after I had joined and wound up in Nam. I am sorry to say two were lost. A visit to The Wall would be very emotional for me but is something I need to do. I hold a great respect for all our Veterans.

I have yet to visit any of the memorials in DC. Something I need to add to my bucket list.

Korean War Memorial: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/coldwar/korea_hickey_01.shtml

England vs Italy, 0-0, heck neither team deserved to win. Strike 3 and I'm out. That was my last try at trying to watch and appreciate soccer. I just have better things to watch like Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse. Or even Piers Morgan.

By God I have tried to watch some games and see what the rest of the world sees in soccer. It fails to impress me. Watching grass grow just might be more exciting than soccer. For the life of me I do not understand it's popularity.

Don' mess with Mother Nature.

Your Mom, you and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers.

I have have distorted nothing. You wrote: "If he was an illegal all the more good reason for him to be dead." I most certainly did but you again only read into it what you want with your preconceived notions or opinions. Remember that I said I support Capital Punishment? Well rape of a child IMHO deserves capital punishment or death. Had he her illegally that would make the crime even more onerous hence all the more good reason for him to be dead. My preference for where capital punishment can be applied is broader than most. But most certainly rape of a child is high on the list. We certainly differ on rule of law with you being IMHO what we affectionately call a Bleeding Heart Liberal and me being a Hard Core Conservative. Although one without religion as most conservatives tend to be. As I said the race card had no place in this dialogue and was never played by me, it was your presumption without fact or understanding of another culture that lead that direction. You point out that because most of the illegal immigrants in that area are Mexican, which is true, that it is a racist action. You then seem to forget the illegal part and make the assumption that it is racist because most are Mexican. Have you ever watched our border? Thousands upon thousands of legal Mexicans cross our border daily to work with no issue, racial or otherwise. They are legal and welcomed to our workforce. Race is no factor. Now when we oppose illegal immigrants you want to turn around and say it's racist. There is a conflict there. Races should not even be a consideration in this dialogue unless perhaps you yourself are biased for one reason or another. The sole issue is Legal or Illegal, nothing more, nothing less. So as I said before that it might be best we just agree to disagree and end the race topic. I also think we both understand forum dialogue can also get of track because body language is missing and replies are not immediate leading to misinterpretation of a persons meaning or thought. Forum posts a a very poor format for sensitive debate.

Brain Plant, Dedicated to XI http://www.incredibox.com/?music=4FE310DCAD9DB Gotta be careful or the stuff gets in your head.

Bottom line is to understand that illegal immigrant does not mean racist.

I believe you can link your song and post it as cheese did.