The Gun Control Thread

[ENG4INE]

It is illegal for citizens to own guns in China. http://news.yahoo.co...-064458804.html My point in posting that news article was to show gun restrictions won't stop the cycle of violence at schools. We need to stop programming our children to kill. Read "On Killing" by Lt.Col. Dave Grossman if you would like to learn more about the psychology of killing in war and society. I have read several books, attended multiple trainings and seminars on school shooters and school shootings. It is a societal problem, not a gun problem. Media that is infesting our children's minds at a young age is training them to kill. Video games (emphasis on first person shooters) more so than the other forms. I am not an academic expert on the topic of school shooters and school shootings, but I have been trained by several experts in the field. I am former armed forces, and a current police officer. I have received the education on these topics because of the probability that I will be responding to an active shooter. The experts I refer too are University academics at the top of their field that have been one or both as well and have conducted studies as well as interviewed our countries school shooters that have lived to see prison. Of those shooters interviewed they all had several things in common. 1) they weren't afraid to die. 2) they were all afraid of failure 3) they acknowledged that schools were an easy target because they knew no one was armed to stop them, so the probability of their failure was lower. 4) they said as they were doing it, it was just like in their video games. They had become so detached from society that life was there video game. Mind you this isn't some sampling study of civilians and what their opinions are, these are the words of the killers themselves. Same goes for the attacks on malls and theaters. The people doing these attacks have known these are no weapons zones for civilians, so there only opposition could be armed officials. The security officer's in our malls are even unarmed, as they are in many cities. The doctors and experts I refer too started out wanting to know why these people are doing this so that they could better train first responders, not forward a political agenda. The better we understand the minds of killers, the better we can prevent and prepare to respond to such incidents. I recommend any writing by this expert if you would like to further your knowledge on the topic. http://www.killology.com/bio.htm Also any writing by Phil Chalmers. I realize posting this on a video game forum is going to piss of the parents that let there 7-?? year old play but the facts speak for themselves. Video games are MA for a reason.

 

Couple the above with one of the many forms of mental illness or cases where there were "signs" before but no one acted and you have a recipe for disaster.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Sheepdog45

[BurnnBright]

And........... the ones who are responsible for banning guns (if they do) will likely always be protected by armed guards. Go figure.

 

Why is it when people hear gun control, they hear gun ban?

Define "Gun Control" then.

 

con·trol(kn-trl)

tr.v. con·trolled, con·trol·ling, con·trols

1.

To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct. See Synonyms at

conduct

.

2.

To adjust to a requirement; regulate:

controlled trading on the stock market; controls the flow of water.

3.

To hold in restraint; check:

struggled to control my temper.

4.

To reduce or prevent the spread of:

control insects; controlled the fire by dousing it with water.

 

Ban

/ban/

Verb

Officially or legally prohibit: "he was banned from driving for a year".

 

 

So, control meaning "put reasonable limits in place" i.e. many of the same mandatory requirements for driving a car:

- Title and tag at each point of sale

- Training

- Written test

- Practical test

- Health requirements (particularly mental health)

- liability insurance on each gun

- renewal and inspection at regular intervals

 

And prohibition on certain weapons i.e Assault rifles (note that it's not called a "Defence" rifle), fully automatic weapons, hollow-point bullets, etc. Only the military and police forces should be able to legally acquire and use these. Make the penalty severe and with a harsh minimum sentence and fine for civilian possession.[/color]

 

 

 

And how does this prevent disasters such as killing small children? Criminals will still have guns. Law abiding citizens will not. Is "prohibition on certain weapons i.e. assault rifles, fully automatic weapons, hollow-point bullets, etc" not a ban? See, that's why "gun control" turns into "gun bans".

Edited December 16, 2012 by BurnnBright

[Astronomer]

And........... the ones who are responsible for banning guns (if they do) will likely always be protected by armed guards. Go figure.

 

Why is it when people hear gun control, they hear gun ban?

Define "Gun Control" then.

 

con·trol(kn-trl)

tr.v. con·trolled, con·trol·ling, con·trols

1.

To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct. See Synonyms at

conduct

.

2.

To adjust to a requirement; regulate:

controlled trading on the stock market; controls the flow of water.

3.

To hold in restraint; check:

struggled to control my temper.

4.

To reduce or prevent the spread of:

control insects; controlled the fire by dousing it with water.

 

Ban

/ban/

Verb

Officially or legally prohibit: "he was banned from driving for a year".

 

 

So, control meaning "put reasonable limits in place" i.e. many of the same mandatory requirements for driving a car:

- Title and tag at each point of sale

- Training

- Written test

- Practical test

- Health requirements (particularly mental health)

- liability insurance on each gun

- renewal and inspection at regular intervals

 

And prohibition on certain weapons i.e Assault rifles (note that it's not called a "Defence" rifle), fully automatic weapons, hollow-point bullets, etc. Only the military and police forces should be able to legally acquire and use these. Make the penalty severe and with a harsh minimum sentence and fine for civilian possession.[/color]

 

 

 

And how does this prevent disasters such as killing small children? Criminals will still have guns. Law abiding citizens will not. Is "prohibition on certain weapons i.e. assault rifles, fully automatic weapons, hollow-point bullets, etc" not a ban? See, that's why "gun control" turns into "gun bans".

 

Your logic is flawed. You want carte-blanche access to any and all types of gun. The 2nd amendment only covered gun ownership, not access to any weapon ever made with no mention of barring limits to gun ownership. You consider anything less to be a ban. I'm suggesting reasonable limits, hence, gun ownership is still allowed. Should you be allowed to own a M1A1 Abrams mainline battle tank? Anti-aircraft batteries? A 7.63mm Dillon Aero M134? Of course not. You also ignored the concept of mandating the same requirements of gun ownership that car owners must have.

[Bama]

Your logic is flawed. You want carte-blanche access to any and all types of gun. The 2nd amendment only covered gun ownership, not access to any weapon ever made with no mention of barring limits to gun ownership. You consider anything less to be a ban. I'm suggesting reasonable limits, hence, gun ownership is still allowed. Should you be allowed to own a M1A1 Abrams mainline battle tank? Anti-aircraft batteries? A 7.63mm Dillon Aero M134? Of course not. You also ignored the concept of mandating the same requirements of gun ownership that car owners must have.

 

No one said we want access to any and all firearms. She spoke correctly to say that automatic weapons are 'banned' for normal ownership. We do not currently have carte-blanche access to any and all types of guns. We have limits now, such as special (very expensive, exhaustively difficult govt oversite) licensing for automatic weapons. We have had more stringent limits in times past, that had no effect whatsoever to reduce gun crime. What you do not comprehend is that some Americans believe that we already have reasonable limits. I will, however, concede that some Americans believe further regulation is warranted. The limits that you suggest would require constitutional amendment. If 2/3rds of the states agree, then it can pass.

Some Americans have also seen that any and every emotionally charged issue is exploited for the eventual disarmament of the citizenry. That is why many speak of such things in the aftermath of a tragedy such as just took place. Walk a mile in our shoes before you speak of our journey.

 

Training, licensing, and taxing vehicle owners has not stopped traffic accidents or acts of intentional violence utilizing vehicles.

 

We can continue to make ridiculous comparisons that sound cute, but have no bearing on the issue of the proper regulation of guns in American society. However, It is obviously a very complex issue, full of opinion, that cannot be solved here.

[BANNPIRE]

Actually, under common law you have the right to travel in your own personal property without needing a license. Only when you register it (give up ownership) and sign your right to travel away by getting a license is when they have authority over you to restrict your right to travel by telling you what you can and can't do. You unknowingly give your rights away by ignorance to the twisted language of law. They call your car a "vehicle" which is actually in definition a motor powered machine for commercial use and transporting more than 8 passengers. Under common law if you don't use your car for work of commercial purposes it does not need to be registered. Many people do not even know this stuff. Hell, many lawyers don’t even know this stuff. I think we all can agree that I'm off topic but also agree that Unless your country was founded on people fighting for freedom and is a staple of who and what your country is You will never get it. It's funny though that a person from Canada is hell bent on our rights when Canada has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world. There are almost if not more as many rifles per capita in Canada as in the United States and Canada has fewer crimes by the gun then majority of countries. Why, reread the last two sentences. I hope my point was clear.

 

 

 

Hey, if anyone wants a further peak down the rabbit hole with common laws and our country check my blog out. There is a lot if things you may not know but are facts and very intriguing.

 

http://howtobeattraffictickets.wordpress.com/

 

 

 

 

 

I leave you all with an informative factual little video.

 

Good Night!

 

Edited December 16, 2012 by BANNPIRE

[Astronomer]

Your logic is flawed. You want carte-blanche access to any and all types of gun. The 2nd amendment only covered gun ownership, not access to any weapon ever made with no mention of barring limits to gun ownership. You consider anything less to be a ban. I'm suggesting reasonable limits, hence, gun ownership is still allowed. Should you be allowed to own a M1A1 Abrams mainline battle tank? Anti-aircraft batteries? A 7.63mm Dillon Aero M134? Of course not. You also ignored the concept of mandating the same requirements of gun ownership that car owners must have.

 

No one said we want access to any and all firearms. She spoke correctly to say that automatic weapons are 'banned' for normal ownership. We do not currently have carte-blanche access to any and all types of guns. We have limits now, such as special (very expensive, exhaustively difficult govt oversite) licensing for automatic weapons. We have had more stringent limits in times past, that had no effect whatsoever to reduce gun crime. What you do not comprehend is that some Americans believe that we already have reasonable limits. I will, however, concede that some Americans believe further regulation is warranted. The limits that you suggest would require constitutional amendment. If 2/3rds of the states agree, then it can pass.

Some Americans have also seen that any and every emotionally charged issue is exploited for the eventual disarmament of the citizenry. That is why many speak of such things in the aftermath of a tragedy such as just took place. Walk a mile in our shoes before you speak of our journey.

 

Training, licensing, and taxing vehicle owners has not stopped traffic accidents or acts of intentional violence utilizing vehicles.

 

We can continue to make ridiculous comparisons that sound cute, but have no bearing on the issue of the proper regulation of guns in American society. However, It is obviously a very complex issue, full of opinion, that cannot be solved here.

 

I stand by my comments. What irks me is that whenever any of these tragic events occur, one of the first things said is that "...now is not the time to discuss gun control". Then once time has passed and the event fades from memory, no discussion takes place. Now IS the time, though it is far too late. The genie is out of the bottle and the lobbyists have won.

 

Call it what you will, but these numbers are real and speak volumes. If Canada had the same rate, we'd have had over 1000 gun deaths:

 

[Astronomer]

Actually, under common law you have the right to travel in your own personal property without needing a license. Only when you register it (give up ownership) and sign your right to travel away by getting a license is when they have authority over you to restrict your right to travel by telling you what you can and can't do. You unknowingly give your rights away by ignorance to the twisted language of law. They call your car a "vehicle" which is actually in definition a motor powered machine for commercial use and transporting more than 8 passengers. Under common law if you don't use your car for work of commercial purposes it does not need to be registered. Many people do not even know this stuff. Hell, many lawyers don’t even know this stuff. I think we all can agree that I'm off topic but also agree that Unless your country was founded on people fighting for freedom and is a staple of who and what your country is You will never get it. It's funny though that a person from Canada is hell bent on our rights when Canada has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world. There are almost if not more as many rifles per capita in Canada as in the United States and Canada has fewer crimes by the gun then majority of countries. Why, reread the last two sentences. I hope my point was clear.

 

 

 

Hey, if anyone wants a further peak down the rabbit hole with common laws and our country check my blog out. There is a lot if things you may not know but are facts and very intriguing.

 

http://howtobeattraffictickets.wordpress.com/

 

 

 

 

 

I leave you all with an informative factual little video.

 

Good Night!

 

 

 

Canada is also a very large and very rural country. Most weapons are hunting rifles ("long guns") and despite this per-capita ownership statistic, we have an exceedingly tiny amount of gun deaths per capita compared to the USA. Think on that. We do not have the gun culture that you have and hand gun ownership is tightly controlled.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Astronomer

[BANNPIRE]

I stated the fact of Canada having fewer gun deaths than America in my post. You might want to read it. Funny , A country that is allowed to have more guns has less gun deaths huh. Again ,unless your country was founded on people fighting for freedom and is a staple of who and what your country is You will never get it.

Edited December 16, 2012 by BANNPIRE

[Astronomer]

I stated the fact of Canada having fewer gun deaths than America in my post. You might want to read it. Funny , A country that is allowed to have more guns has less gun deaths huh. Again ,unless your country was founded on people fighting for freedom and is a staple of who and what your country is You will never get it.

 

I read your post. Further to it, of course I'm damn-well interested in your "rights", or more specifically, interpretations of your rights, rights with a powerful and well-funded group of lobbyists behind it. We have a very Conservative government that has hired Republican strategists to assist in the past few elections and who is very warm towards Republican ideals and policies. We're neighbours with a free-trade agreement. The last thing that I want is a wholesale importation of a specific sector - guns - that would change the nature of my country. If next to your home there was a house that had things going on that made you uneasy, wouldn't you pay attention?

Edited December 16, 2012 by Astronomer

[BurnnBright]

So, as a woman, how should I protect myself from rapists, murderers and thugs when I'm alone? What should I do during a home invasion (which happens a lot here)?

 

Edited December 16, 2012 by BurnnBright

[Bama]

 

Canada is also a very large and very rural country. Most weapons are hunting rifles ("long guns") and despite this per-capita ownership statistic, we have an exceedingly tiny amount of gun deaths per capita compared to the USA. Think on that. We do not have the gun culture that you have and hand gun ownership is tightly controlled.

 

AND YET, Canada and USA's per capita homicide rates are very close. The latest homicide rate, per 100,000 citizens, in Canada is 1.6 and the US is 4.2. Not so drastic a difference as comparing hand gun deaths, since Canada has banned handguns. The homicide rate still remains similar to your southern neighbor. I believe that proves that humans will manage to figure a way to do what they want. I do not take joy in these statistics, I only mean to point out the greater issue.. an issue even larger than weapon of choice or weapon of necessity.

[BANNPIRE]

Astronomer, are you fimiliar with "fast and furious"? lol! Honestly, I don't poke my nose in others business too much. I researched the neighborhood that I moved into, so I don't have to worry that much about it here. Almost everyone on my street has a gun that I know of.... We don't get any problems here.

Edited December 16, 2012 by BANNPIRE

[Astronomer]

Astronomer, are you fimiliar with "fast and furious"? lol! Honestly, I don't poke my nose in others business too much. I researched the neighborhood that I moved into, so I don't have to worry that much about it here. Almost everyone on my street has a gun that I know of.... We don't get any problems here.

 

You have ignored my point. I am interested in what happens down there for the reasons that I have stated. Given agreements between our countries and the porous nature of our shared border, there is a real danger to my country and way of life from the gun culture that is so close to me geographically, economically, and politically. I do not want it.

[GorillaXI]

I have many thoughts on what people who do not live in the US have to say. But I will refrain from voicing them, as this might get me in trouble with the management. So instead I will just post a few pics with my point of view.

 

 

 

I am a law abiding citizen and have earned the right to bear my arms. So I present to you my collection. And yes I know how to use them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you live in a different country and feel that you need to make a stupid post about our laws and practices in the US, STFU. I don't recall the last time someone here made disparaging remarks about how your country is run.

Edited December 16, 2012 by GorillaXI

[Astronomer]

So, as a woman, how should I protect myself from rapists, murderers and thugs when I'm alone? What should I do during a home invasion (which happens a lot here)?

 

 

I did not say that guns should be banned, just reasonable limits imposed. Many idiots have extremely powerful weapons for self defence when a smaller caliber weapon will also stop an intruder dead at close to medium range i.e in a house. A fully automatic and powerful weapon greatly increases the odds of bullets exiting the premises and hitting random people within a half-mile or more. Reasonable limits.

[BurnnBright]

Astronomer, are you fimiliar with "fast and furious"? lol! Honestly, I don't poke my nose in others business too much. I researched the neighborhood that I moved into, so I don't have to worry that much about it here. Almost everyone on my street has a gun that I know of.... We don't get any problems here.

 

You have ignored my point. I am interested in what happens down there for the reasons that I have stated. Given agreements between our countries and the porous nature of our shared border, there is a real danger to my country and way of life from the gun culture that is so close to me geographically, economically, and politically. I do not want it.

 

You have ignored my point. I am interested in what happens up there for the reasons that I have stated however you're country must do what they think is best for the particular circumstances there. Given agreements between our countries and the porous nature of our shared border, there is a real danger to my country and way of life from the NON-gun culture that is so close to me geographically, economically, and politically. I do not want it.

[BurnnBright]

So, as a woman, how should I protect myself from rapists, murderers and thugs when I'm alone? What should I do during a home invasion (which happens a lot here)?

 

 

I did not say that guns should be banned, just reasonable limits imposed. Many idiots have extremely powerful weapons for self defence when a smaller caliber weapon will also stop an intruder dead at close to medium range i.e in a house. A fully automatic and powerful weapon greatly increases the odds of bullets exiting the premises and hitting random people within a half-mile or more. Reasonable limits.

 

So is it okay for me to have a hand gun? I thought you said those were off limits too. My mistake. I'll save the automatic weapons for the people running across the yard at me. Since I live in the middle of 36 acres, I'm not to worried about random bullets harming someone else.

[Astronomer]

I have many thoughts on what people who do not live in the US have to say. But I will refrain from voicing them, as this might get me in trouble with the management. So instead I will just post a few pics with my point of view.

 

 

 

I am a law abiding citizen and have earned the right to bear my arms. So I present to you my collection.

 

 

 

 

 

If you live in a different country and feel that you need to make a stupid post about out laws and practices in the US, STFU. I don't recall the last time someone here made disparaging remarks about how your country is run.

 

Really? FU too. Given the free trade agreements between our countries, there is a real danger that your gun culture will be imported into MY country, particularly given our proximity. I hope that your neighbours wear Kevlar vests because when you wake up from a nightmare and start firing at imaginary intruders, your high-powered weaponry will shoot projectiles that will penetrate several walls. Look up stats on deaths from random bullets.

 

Feel free to comment on how my country is run, 'cause, like yours, it ain't perfect. Where I live does not preclude me from commenting on shortcomings in other countries that have the potential to affect me. Further, no system, nor country, nor government is above criticism or comment. If you disagree, you do not believe in democracy, and in democracies there are many differing opinions that have a right to be voiced. The USA, and Canada have a long history of (rightly or wrongly) commenting and criticizing other countries and how they are governed.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Astronomer

[GorillaXI]

I have many thoughts on what people who do not live in the US have to say. But I will refrain from voicing them, as this might get me in trouble with the management. So instead I will just post a few pics with my point of view.

 

 

 

I am a law abiding citizen and have earned the right to bear my arms. So I present to you my collection.

 

 

 

 

 

If you live in a different country and feel that you need to make a stupid post about out laws and practices in the US, STFU. I don't recall the last time someone here made disparaging remarks about how your country is run.

 

Really? FU too. Given the free trade agreements between our countries, there is a real danger that your gun culture will be imported into MY country, particularly given our proximity. I hope that your neighbours wear Kevlar vests because when you wake up from a nightmare and start firing at imaginary intruders, your high-powered weaponry will shoot projectiles that will penetrate several walls. Look up stats on deaths from random bullets.

 

LOL, I'd rather see that facts from random comments about US gun control from someone who doesn't live in the US. Besides, the only one of my weapons in my home that is loaded is a 9mm in my night stand for personal protection. If you know anything about a 9mm, they pretty much loose all muzzle velocity as soon as they leave the barrel and start to tumble and wont do much damage, even to a wet paper sack at 75 feet.. And on a side note, all my guns outside of the 9mm are locked up in a safe, and the ammo is in a different closet.

[Astronomer]

Canada is also a very large and very rural country. Most weapons are hunting rifles ("long guns") and despite this per-capita ownership statistic, we have an exceedingly tiny amount of gun deaths per capita compared to the USA. Think on that. We do not have the gun culture that you have and hand gun ownership is tightly controlled.

 

AND YET, Canada and USA's per capita homicide rates are very close. The latest homicide rate, per 100,000 citizens, in Canada is 1.6 and the US is 4.2. Not so drastic a difference as comparing hand gun deaths, since Canada has banned handguns. The homicide rate still remains similar to your southern neighbor. I believe that proves that humans will manage to figure a way to do what they want. I do not take joy in these statistics, I only mean to point out the greater issue.. an issue even larger than weapon of choice or weapon of necessity.

 

Not so drastic? Really?!? Per capita, your homicide rate is much more than double! That is not at all statistically insignificant and far from it. To call that similar is to say that a donkey is similar and equivalent to a Clydesdale.

[BurnnBright]

Bottom line. Gun control will not prevent incidents like school shootings from happening. Period. It will only prevent law abiding citizens from owning the guns they choose to own and use for whatever legal activity they're involved in. Whack jobs and evil thugs will always have automatic weapons. No gun law will change that.

 

As for small caliber hand guns, you better make sure you hit them in the right spot to kill them. If you wound them, THEY can sue you even though they were breaking into YOUR home and trying to hurt YOU. I'd rather have a little more insurance personally.

[Astronomer]

I have many thoughts on what people who do not live in the US have to say. But I will refrain from voicing them, as this might get me in trouble with the management. So instead I will just post a few pics with my point of view.

 

 

 

I am a law abiding citizen and have earned the right to bear my arms. So I present to you my collection.

 

 

 

 

 

If you live in a different country and feel that you need to make a stupid post about out laws and practices in the US, STFU. I don't recall the last time someone here made disparaging remarks about how your country is run.

 

Really? FU too. Given the free trade agreements between our countries, there is a real danger that your gun culture will be imported into MY country, particularly given our proximity. I hope that your neighbours wear Kevlar vests because when you wake up from a nightmare and start firing at imaginary intruders, your high-powered weaponry will shoot projectiles that will penetrate several walls. Look up stats on deaths from random bullets.

 

LOL, I'd rather see that facts from random comments about US gun control from someone who doesn't live in the US. Besides, the only one of my weapons in my home that is loaded is a 9mm in my night stand for personal protection. If you know anything about a 9mm, they pretty much loose all muzzle velocity as soon as they leave the barrel and start to tumble and wont do much damage, even to a wet paper sack at 75 feet.. And on a side note, all my guns outside of the 9mm are locked up in a safe, and the ammo is in a different closet.

 

Good to hear that you are responsible in how you handle your gear. You did not mention that in your original post, so "LOL" back in your face. And *gasp* I know something about muzzle velocity of a 9mm vs an AK47, hence my post.

 

"Whatever" to your dismissal of my comments because I'm not an American. What happens there affects my country because of how interconnected we are, and I have family down there.

[BurnnBright]

[Astronomer]

Bottom line. Gun control will not prevent incidents like school shootings from happening. Period. It will only prevent law abiding citizens from owning the guns they choose to own and use for whatever legal activity they're involved in. Whack jobs and evil thugs will always have automatic weapons. No gun law will change that.

 

As for small caliber hand guns, you better make sure you hit them in the right spot to kill them. If you wound them, THEY can sue you even though they were breaking into YOUR home and trying to hurt YOU. I'd rather have a little more insurance personally.

 

Like I said, the genie is out of the bottle and the lobbyists from the gun industry have won. My only hope and goal is to contain that particular culture and situation below my country's borders. There's a lot to love and admire about the USA. The gun culture/situation is not one of those things. You have my sincerest hope that you make it through your life unscathed by it.

[BANNPIRE]

The kool aid is strong with you Astomnomer ROLF. Can I be for real for a minute. Does our gun laws seriously affect you as a person. I mean what are the chances statisticly of them affecting you or yours. Your country has more guns than us anyway. I can easily say I'm worried your guns are going to cross the border over here and end up in the wrong hands. Stricked gun Laws don't keep guns out of the wrong hands that is a fact, so how can your point be valid anymore? All but 34 states bann auto gun ownership the rest of the states choose not to have a bann because that is our staets right to do so no matter what country thinks what we should do. We are the land of the free home of the brave. We are free to do what we think is right and brave enough to exercise and know our rights not inturpret them to fit an aganda.Evil will find a gun even if it is banned or more laws are made to restrict them. I don't really see a logical reason why or how this effects your trade. If our govenents want to trade guns thats their doing not the peoples. Here lets talk in circles ...your turn.

Edited December 16, 2012 by BANNPIRE