Lag vs Real Time

[BigPapaDean]

First let me begin by saying that in reality there is no such thing in our servers as "real time" with the technology as it is today. Everybody has a different ping and provider etc. There are lots of players that don't seem to affect the servers even if they do have lag. Others have a huge impact and after a little research I found some information as to maybe what some of these people are doing. These days what with all the new online games and high competition players are stooping to new lows of ethical playing and actually initiating lag when they enter a server. This morning as most mornings as I was playing there was a player that I think for the most part has a pretty solid game but when I try to shoot this player about 95% of the time I can't kill him with a straight shot. I can knife kill him easily but shooting him is almost impossible for me. One of the places I read up on this says that players are using lag as a hack for an unfair advantage for them to have more kills than the other players. Here is the link for this info if you think I am crazy you might want to simply google "lag switching." I had heard and read for some time now that the old COD Utility had in their archives the definition that as far as they were concerned lag is a hack. The following site is just one of many that has some really good info what and how players are doing to make lag a useful tool for them and aid them in their playing. http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/31303/preventing-artificial-latency-or-lag-hacking-in-multiplayer-games  

 

The player this morning on the first map came in about half way thru and was way behind. By the time the next 10 minutes were done he was in third place and was using a simple sniper rifle as a weapon. I tried to shoot him and at point blank range was not hitting him and he wasn't even moving to avoid my shots. He would simply shoot me one shot killing me. I then switched my way of attack and begin cutting him with much higher success rate. 

 

On the next map I cut him mercilessly and mentioned that I couldn't shoot him and he was in third place . Some of the other players tried to laugh it off but when the map was over guess who was on top? I don't mind him winning but he is doing it simply because of his lag. Even one of the admins concurred he was pretty laggy. I don't claim he is doing this intentional but who can say? I believe this will always be a challenge to us and our admins as long as we play digital games. 

 

Another thing I have noticed quite frequently is when this sort of thing happens the player in question seems to be unnoticed by the greater share of the other players. At least they don't say anything. If no one says anything about these issues then we will never grow as far as our knowledge of a world where hacking is big money right now. As we have our own servers we need to keep up with the latest on the info out there. Now I would love it if someone could figure out a way that hacks such as lag could never be a problem we have to deal with, but that seems to be a pipe dream of mine. The ultimate experience for me would to be in real time and play as it were real life. My life doesn't lag does yours?

[Frags]

Dean, 
I was there. He is not the only player that has that effect on the server. I told you he was lagging, but you said his ping was good. There are some players that I can't kill with a ping in the 30's and they just skip across my screen. There was a way on the Sof2 servers I used to admin on to lag the server by changing your rate. I caught one guy with a key bind to change his rate in game. Its a pretty lame way to win a game if you ask me. Anyway I will read the link you provided. The sad part is that if that is something real that players are doing it is both XI and non XI players. There are about 7 or 8 of them that act the same way when I play (both XI and non XI). It is either a hack or a lag that they are doing or just my crappy internet provider but I don't know. But one of the players that I can't kill unless they are standing still right in front of me moved from one state to another. When he moved I thought well if it his crappy isp then he might act normal when he gets to the new location.  Nope,  after the move I still can't kill him no matter what. I don't know... And, to back you up some it is not just the game. I know Johnny mentioned when we got in a bunny hopping spray and pray fight that went on and on he killed me and said that I did not hit him once and he knows that I would have. It happens to both of us at time he can't kill me and vice versa. I calk that up to the crappy coding the game was made with and the interwebs acting on the game. The players I mention above it stays constant. I wish I had and answer for you.

Frags

[Frags]

Yep, the Sof2 players used something similar to the packet flood. Pretty lame.......

[TecHnOBoY]

This is also known as "lag cheat" or "ping cheat". Impossible to detect for normal players. Hard to detect for admins. You must know the IP address, then search for the location and you need references to other players from the same area.

Like the name says it could be a cheat.

 

It could also be possible, that one player from Germany has 140ms and the other 200 or 300ms due to LAN, Wireless LAN or provider issues.

 

This has been a problem since games like Counter Strike 1.5 or earlier. And it's one reason why many servers are set up to kick high latency players. Mostly from 100ms and more.

 

In CS Source there was a second reason: the complete server was lagging like hell when a high latency player joined a game. Crappy engine, crappy Server, and it has never been resolved by Valve.

[BigPapaDean]

In reality I know one thing if you could see my head where all those times this has happened to me it leaves me scratching my head and losing the precious little hair I have left! I guess until someone invents a detector that detects where the ping and whatever all plays into this as a very suspect thing then it's up to the interpretation of the admins in each given server! That only compounds the problem unless we can get some higher up input on this! Just saying!

[MrBubbles]

Dean, what you're saying is very possible. I've written software in the past that can do such a thing utilizing sockets. The software was developed for two real world business applications, not for hacking. However, one side effect was that the software can be used to throttle down a connection, perfectly. Most connections that users posses that are high, say 200 and above, their over flow rate to and from the server, seen through the lago-o-meter, usually is choppy, not smooth. You can see this while spectating  a user while the lago-meter is present. Does this mean the person is cheating? No, however, an admin then could check to see if someone say living 12 miles from Bubbles with the same ISP would be experiencing such  hike in connection speed. Still doesn't mean that they are cheating! The factors determining whether someone is cheating in this fashion, in my opinion is unmanageable. I know of players that only play on servers that gives them the high ping, that's not cheating!

 

To me this issue is no different than the super-scrollers!

[Frags]

Well, there is a difference in high ping acting funny and these guys. I expect players from England on our US based servers to have a high ping and lag a bit. But what I don't get is the ones that have pings lower than 100 and some with pings in the 30's and they skip across my screen like they are on dial up. Something does not make sense to me on these guys and those generally are the ones you can't kill. Just my observation.

[TecHnOBoY]

The effect of such tools is, that no player doesn't expect that he has to aim a little bit in front or behind his opponent.
I was often called a ping cheater because I had a 2Mbit SDSL (synchronous DSL; 2Mbit up & 2Mbit download, about 8 years ago)  business connection

with very, very low latencies of 5-10 ms on German servers. (i was an employee of the provider) and i had many discussions with admins. The Provider (QSC) was known for his low latencies so the "problems" were solved very quick. But it was very annoying. The same discussion again and again...

As i said, this is hard to detect. Let him play, spectate him. IHMO the only hint is if he has huge ping changes, from 30 to 120ms for example for a few seconds and back to 30. But it might also be possible that the has a download or upload running (Torrent etc).

 

Here an example from counterstrike how a ping cheat looks like: (no, this is NOT my video!)

 

Edited September 3, 2013 by TecHnOBoY

[Sammy]

Lag binding. Usually to one of the unused keys on a gaming mouse. If they are being shot at, or running out it the open, they toggle the key. Mostly defensive because they usually cant hit shit either. PB can sometimes detect it if lost packets happens too much. The streaming PB community services are useful for global bans of such people when they get caught. Otherwise, not much you can do. Yes if you see the guy suddenly warping across the screen when you start shooting at him then it suggests this but it not enough to determine he is cheating.

[Nutcutter]

Well I have not played for a while, and I dont see people skipping across the screen but I do see say someone comes in a door and I start shooting them, then a second later I am dead and they are all of the sudden like five feet away from where they were. I have a steady 50-60 ping and they are usually say 130 or less. Also I have had the impossible to hit close quarters shootout where sometimes I dont think they ever have to shoot, because I will never hit them. Aiming before or after or dead on makes absolutely no difference.

 

I understand shit happens and its no big deal, but I do sometimes have to say there is no friggin way. Once you start watching the player it does happen more than others. Are the cheating, cant say but it is definitely not an even playing field.

[Damage_inc-]

oh pls.lag happens

[1lost1]

removed it didnt work

Edited September 4, 2013 by 1lost1

[BigPapaDean]

Frag like you I have seen many of these players and when you tell them they say I know and keep going. When they know and they don't care makes me really wonder what's going on. Are there any solutions that can be done say from  a server management position. Things like ping limits or a ping detector of some sort that would kick players that meet a certain criteria or what else if anything to control the situation! I am not saying to automatically kick or ban but if certain criteria are met then do something. Otherwise let them play and I will continue to be their victim even when I should kill them!

[Joe Canadian]

These is all news for me, interesting stuff, but I've gotta say Dean that I am impressed by the fact that you were using a gun rather than a knife ;-)  Seriously, I hear you bro, I am sure the adms will be looking into this

[THOR435]

I have had that happen in  cod5mw. We had a player in that was like Dean said killing people with one shot with a sniper rifle. When I would see him and try to kill him he was "skipping" along and was not able to be shot. I had hit him several times in the chest with no damage apparently. When I saw the skipping I looked at his ping and it would go from 350 to 90 and then back to 300 something.  I told him in game that if he didnt get his ping fixed he was going to be kicked.  He disappeared and did not come back.  Sure seemed strange to me. He never even answered me back just left.

[MrBubbles]

The skipping player, can be a user with shit for graphics, say a laptop. I won't use any names, BobBarker for instance. Can appear to have a great connection to the server, packet exchange is held up not by network traffic, rather by the lag the player experiences due to slow processor and graphics card. That player rarely has a high score, I'm sure that BobBarker can contest to this fact! He blows bubbles more than anyone! The best all around solution to such players that seem invincible, is a very fast connection to the internet and a decent gaming rig. Otherwise, do as you do best, knife the fuckers or blow the hell out of them as BobBarker does! I mean shit, he really blows bubbles more than anyone I know!

[Sammy]

Often lag spikes can be sign to keep an eye on a player but in itself doesnt not mean he is cheating. But yes if an admin makes a comment like that and the player leaves without a word then he was a cheater.