little_old_man Posted July 19, 2014 Member ID: 1194 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 40 Topic Count: 436 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 6692 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 11691 Achievement Points: 53094 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 76 Joined: 02/27/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 16, 2023 Birthday: 04/15/1960 Author Posted July 19, 2014 The recorders are useless at this point. We know that a missle downed the plane and it happened so quickly the people in the air didn't know what hit them. Most commercial jets don't have early warning systems for incoming missles (except in Israel and Air Force 1) so all the recorders will show is that everything blew up. I read yesterday that as far as they can tell, the missle was fired from practically right on the Russian border with Ukraine and the jet crashed 20 miles from the border, so whoever fired the missle had to know it wasn't a Ukraine military plane because it wouldn't have been flying toward Russia at 33,000 feet. The people who fired it had to know it was a commercial plane with civilians. I also read that 60 other commercial jets flew threw the same corridor that same day, so it wasn't like the rebels didn't know there were civilian jets flying over. Super Max, Sonovabich and hxtr 3 Awards
Sammy Posted July 19, 2014 Member ID: 3036 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 32 Topic Count: 219 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 9419 Content Per Day: 1.92 Reputation: 7515 Achievement Points: 62539 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 21 Joined: 11/29/11 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 17 Birthday: 04/26/2008 Device: Windows Posted July 19, 2014 Maybe they had a 'shift change' so to speak and whoever took control, after all those earlier flights, was itching to shoot something down so he could say he blew up the big bad Ukrainians. However the recorders could be useful in helping recreate exactly what happened. Maybe up until last week the Russians were in control as the ones training the rebels how to use the equipment. Then they left. You can be sure these 'advisers' were professionals and knew to be sure of their targets before firing. Maybe they used the commercial traffic as test targets for training. Wouldnt surprise me if some of the rebel crews that took over had never even seen a SAM before last month. Awards
ChknFngr Posted July 19, 2014 Member ID: 922 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 72 Topic Count: 149 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3472 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 1286 Achievement Points: 23224 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/23/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: November 16, 2021 Birthday: 10/01/1975 Posted July 19, 2014 Clearly the plane was taken down by Ukranian separatists who mistook it for something other than a commercial flight. They used a Russian BUK missile system; Russian military would have verified the plane's identity so it's doubtful they were directly involved. Nonetheless, blame for this can be laid squarely at the feet of Vladimir Putin who instigated the civil war in Ukraine to grab territory and has armed and is directing the insurgency. 298 people were murdered including several dozen American citizens and dickhead in the oval office needs to, for once in his fucking presidency, ACT. Serious sanctions that hurt Russia should be put in place; we should immediately provide military assistance (equipment only) to Ukraine, and we should announce we are resuming the European missile shield that dickhead pulled and for which he got nothing from the Russians. lol wow complete bs or u are just misinformed. But we not gona make this a political thread again, are we ? Awards
little_old_man Posted July 19, 2014 Member ID: 1194 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 40 Topic Count: 436 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 6692 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 11691 Achievement Points: 53094 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 76 Joined: 02/27/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 16, 2023 Birthday: 04/15/1960 Author Posted July 19, 2014 Putin's living room. hxtr, eidolonFIRE and Super Max 3 Awards
little_old_man Posted July 19, 2014 Member ID: 1194 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 40 Topic Count: 436 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 6692 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 11691 Achievement Points: 53094 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 76 Joined: 02/27/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 16, 2023 Birthday: 04/15/1960 Author Posted July 19, 2014 Maybe they had a 'shift change' so to speak and whoever took control, after all those earlier flights, was itching to shoot something down so he could say he blew up the big bad Ukrainians. However the recorders could be useful in helping recreate exactly what happened. Maybe up until last week the Russians were in control as the ones training the rebels how to use the equipment. Then they left. You can be sure these 'advisers' were professionals and knew to be sure of their targets before firing. Maybe they used the commercial traffic as test targets for training. Wouldnt surprise me if some of the rebel crews that took over had never even seen a SAM before last month. And "maybe" it was the tooth fairy. It doesn't matter who pulled the trigger. Russia controls the separatists, and they are arming them. Responsibility for this fiasco falls directly into Russia's lap. The EU and/or Nato need to put up or shut up and help the Ukraine out. The world has been bitching about the American war mongers for decades. Let's see how they handle the bullies at their own doorstep while the US sits on the side lines. My guess is that nothing will happen and the Ukraine will no longer exist in the months to come and become part of Russia. Europe will throw a hissy fit and then do absolutely nothing. Kind of like when Hitler took Poland and Austria, and everybody thought that would be the end of the hostilites. We all know how well that worked out for the world. The world is ripe for another world war. Anybody who thinks it could never happen again is just fooling themselves. China and Russia are flexing their muscles, and much of the Islamic world hate anybody and everything having to do with western society. The world is a scary place right now. In some ways much more so than before WWII. hxtr, loaderXI and Super Max 3 Awards
hxtr Posted July 19, 2014 Member ID: 220 Group: **- Inactive Registered Users Followers: 147 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 16950 Content Per Day: 2.96 Reputation: 13538 Achievement Points: 129714 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 120 Joined: 09/04/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 26, 2023 Birthday: 04/05/1970 Posted July 19, 2014 Well now we know for sure Russia ordered the strike... Like I said.. Russia dna is all over this one. Everyone is broke.. China.. Russia... but we are the worst. War makes money.. it's the human way.
Sammy Posted July 19, 2014 Member ID: 3036 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 32 Topic Count: 219 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 9419 Content Per Day: 1.92 Reputation: 7515 Achievement Points: 62539 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 21 Joined: 11/29/11 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 17 Birthday: 04/26/2008 Device: Windows Posted July 19, 2014 Dont disrespect the Tooth Fairy. She can be mighty bitchy and mean. Anyways this wouldnt be the first time one of the major powers in the world put advanced weapons into the hands of people that shouldnt be allowed anywhere near them. But it still raises the question. Why this time and not last week? What was different? Why not any of the commercial airplanes flying into Kiev every day? Something changed. The question is what. Awards
Damage_inc- Posted July 19, 2014 Member ID: 2048 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 294 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 6689 Content Per Day: 1.27 Reputation: 4709 Achievement Points: 48999 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/15/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: November 29, 2023 Birthday: 05/30/1967 Posted July 19, 2014 could you imagine if it was an Israeli plane...there would be another world war Super Max, hxtr and iboomboom 3 Awards
little_old_man Posted July 20, 2014 Member ID: 1194 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 40 Topic Count: 436 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 6692 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 11691 Achievement Points: 53094 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 76 Joined: 02/27/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 16, 2023 Birthday: 04/15/1960 Author Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) could you imagine if it was an Israeli plane...there would be another world war Probably not. Israel just would have gone in and carpet bombed the entire area then been done with it. They know how to exact revenge quickly and without the world's permission. Edited July 20, 2014 by little_old_man WarDragonXI, Damage_inc- and hxtr 3 Awards
WarDragonXI Posted July 20, 2014 Member ID: 257 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 19 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 280 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 45 Achievement Points: 1673 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/05/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: July 27, 2023 Birthday: 10/02/1950 Posted July 20, 2014 It is a shame that all these countries sign non-aggression treaties and do nothing but impose sanctions to enforce them. If they truly want world peace then they must take a more pro-active means of enforcing the treaties. As was mentioned before Wars make money for the rich and powerful so it makes you wonder what is really going on behind the scenes ? hxtr and JohnnyDos 2 Awards
hxtr Posted July 20, 2014 Member ID: 220 Group: **- Inactive Registered Users Followers: 147 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 16950 Content Per Day: 2.96 Reputation: 13538 Achievement Points: 129714 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 120 Joined: 09/04/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 26, 2023 Birthday: 04/05/1970 Posted July 20, 2014 could you imagine if it was an Israeli plane...there would be another world war Want to see nukes fly.... do that. I have a theory. Know how winter shit like this Drama does not happen... things are "Chill" and staying warm is the focus. Well I propose the idea of an Ice Age. lets burn every ounce of fossil that exists and cause an Ice Age so everyone stays the fuck home and focuses on staying warm than follow this into this bull shit. Just an Idea. Damage_inc- 1
Sammy Posted July 20, 2014 Member ID: 3036 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 32 Topic Count: 219 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 9419 Content Per Day: 1.92 Reputation: 7515 Achievement Points: 62539 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 21 Joined: 11/29/11 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 17 Birthday: 04/26/2008 Device: Windows Posted July 20, 2014 Money talks. You can blow this up or blow that up. Cut off their money and they tend to respond. Economic sanction is a pussy phrase. Economic domination is much better. hxtr, Damage_inc- and KingStinger! 3 Awards
Damage_inc- Posted July 20, 2014 Member ID: 2048 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 294 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 6689 Content Per Day: 1.27 Reputation: 4709 Achievement Points: 48999 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/15/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: November 29, 2023 Birthday: 05/30/1967 Posted July 20, 2014 Probably not. Israel just would have gone in and carpet bombed the entire area then been done with it. They know how to exact revenge quickly and without the world's permissionyour your rite they would do that and we would applaud them but that perhaps would fuel the fire for all the Israeli hating nations to band together and then the US would have to back Israel and others would join into back us like .France England.etc.. justa shit samwich i hope is never made. Awards
hxtr Posted July 20, 2014 Member ID: 220 Group: **- Inactive Registered Users Followers: 147 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 16950 Content Per Day: 2.96 Reputation: 13538 Achievement Points: 129714 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 120 Joined: 09/04/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 26, 2023 Birthday: 04/05/1970 Posted July 20, 2014 Putin's living room.
little_old_man Posted July 20, 2014 Member ID: 1194 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 40 Topic Count: 436 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 6692 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 11691 Achievement Points: 53094 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 76 Joined: 02/27/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 16, 2023 Birthday: 04/15/1960 Author Posted July 20, 2014 Money talks. You can blow this up or blow that up. Cut off their money and they tend to respond. Economic sanction is a pussy phrase. Economic domination is much better. Sanctions only work if "all" countries follow them. Russia suffers from the same problem as we do, mismanagement of what money they have, only they have a lot more corruption over there. They also dump a lot more of their GDP into making weapons and bolstering the military. The EU gets most of their natural gas from Russia and I seriously doubt if Europe is willing to live without heat and much of its electricity to save the Ukraine. Russia has Europe by the balls and both sides know it. The US on the other hand produces our own natural gas, and is finally producing more oil than we import, so if we absolutely had to we could tell OPEC to fuck off and still survive. WarDragonXI and hxtr 2 Awards
hxtr Posted July 20, 2014 Member ID: 220 Group: **- Inactive Registered Users Followers: 147 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 16950 Content Per Day: 2.96 Reputation: 13538 Achievement Points: 129714 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 120 Joined: 09/04/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 26, 2023 Birthday: 04/05/1970 Posted July 20, 2014 Sanctions only work if "all" countries follow them. Russia suffers from the same problem as we do, mismanagement of what money they have, only they have a lot more corruption over there. They also dump a lot more of their GDP into making weapons and bolstering the military. The EU gets most of their natural gas from Russia and I seriously doubt if Europe is willing to live without heat and much of its electricity to save the Ukraine. Russia has Europe by the balls and both sides know it. The US on the other hand produces our own natural gas, and is finally producing more oil than we import, so if we absolutely had to we could tell OPEC to fuck off and still survive. +1 Europe is being held hostage buy Russia.... Germany get 50% of their natural gas from Russia. I think every country in Europe gets some gas from Russia. Soon Europe will all be speaking Russian. lol
Super Max Posted July 21, 2014 Member ID: 558 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 57 Topic Count: 577 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3788 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 1487 Achievement Points: 29091 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 7 Joined: 10/14/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: Sunday at 11:00 AM Birthday: 06/09/1964 Device: Windows Posted July 21, 2014 We have the largest gas field in Europe. So not dependent on Russia gas. We can only get on the knees by Russia to destroy them financially. But first, we want the bodies back hxtr 1 Awards
little_old_man Posted July 21, 2014 Member ID: 1194 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 40 Topic Count: 436 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 6692 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 11691 Achievement Points: 53094 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 76 Joined: 02/27/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 16, 2023 Birthday: 04/15/1960 Author Posted July 21, 2014 Yes, we know you have a lot of natural gas Hans. Your country does too, but your government seems unwilling to bring it out of the ground. hxtr 1 Awards
ChknFngr Posted July 21, 2014 Member ID: 922 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 72 Topic Count: 149 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3472 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 1286 Achievement Points: 23224 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/23/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: November 16, 2021 Birthday: 10/01/1975 Posted July 21, 2014 and what if it wasnt the separatists who did it but the Ukraine army ? do not forget that u got many Nazis in the Ukraine gov, military and security service, and u have no idea what those people are capable of. Awards
little_old_man Posted July 21, 2014 Member ID: 1194 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 40 Topic Count: 436 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 6692 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 11691 Achievement Points: 53094 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 76 Joined: 02/27/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 16, 2023 Birthday: 04/15/1960 Author Posted July 21, 2014 and what if it wasnt the separatists who did it but the Ukraine army ? do not forget that u got many Nazis in the Ukraine gov, military and security service, and u have no idea what those people are capable of. I agree with what you are saying ChknFngr, the Ukrainians have their fair share of bad history, but according to our spy satellites the missile was fired from deep within seperatists territory, almost on the Russian border. If the Ukrainian's shot it they would have had to sneek into the area then sneak out, which doesn't make any sense at all. If you want to read a timeline of what we think really happened, here you go. No doubt there is a lot of propaganda coming from both sides, but everything in this link has been consistent since the crash happened. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6ee_1405625074 Sonovabich 1 Awards
ChknFngr Posted July 21, 2014 Member ID: 922 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 72 Topic Count: 149 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3472 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 1286 Achievement Points: 23224 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/23/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: November 16, 2021 Birthday: 10/01/1975 Posted July 21, 2014 well from all i read and from both sides, its clear, u are right, there is a lot of propaganda from all sides involved. But until now, no real evidence to me. i find real hard to believe u can shoot a commercial plane by mistake, and if its not by mistake, i dont understand why they (if it was the separatists) would do such thing. on the other hand if it was the ukrainian army, i can see why. but that doesnt make an evidence either. Super Max 1 Awards
hxtr Posted July 22, 2014 Member ID: 220 Group: **- Inactive Registered Users Followers: 147 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 16950 Content Per Day: 2.96 Reputation: 13538 Achievement Points: 129714 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 120 Joined: 09/04/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 26, 2023 Birthday: 04/05/1970 Posted July 22, 2014 and what if it wasnt the separatists who did it but the Ukraine army ? do not forget that u got many Nazis in the Ukraine gov, military and security service, and u have no idea what those people are capable of. We got Nazi's running the Executive Branch. Pesky little critters.
NITRO Posted July 22, 2014 Member ID: 1095 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 34 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3639 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 2460 Achievement Points: 24702 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 2 Joined: 02/06/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 17 Birthday: 03/23/1979 Device: iPhone Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Because the American Govt has never been caught lying about a major incident/accident before have they?.... They were too quick to lay blame, there is more to it than what's apparent now I reckon. But it definitely benefits Ukraine as the story is now. A bit suspect that an incident on this level is what it would have taken to shake support up to intervene or break the deadlock situation in Ukraine then what do you know, plane shot down. I'm not saying who did it either way, I'm just saying that its a great opportunity to bend narrative to suit a given agenda. Just because the people in the "audio clip" spoke Russian don't make them Russian. A lot of Ukrainians speak Russian too. Also why would you down a civilian plane from damn near on your own border? That doesn't help your cause? Sounds counter productive to their mission. It's easy to say you have images of the launch when you are not required to release the images Edited July 22, 2014 by NITRO ChknFngr and Super Max 2 Awards
Super Max Posted July 22, 2014 Member ID: 558 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 57 Topic Count: 577 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3788 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 1487 Achievement Points: 29091 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 7 Joined: 10/14/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: Sunday at 11:00 AM Birthday: 06/09/1964 Device: Windows Posted July 22, 2014 Therefore, there must also come. A good research There are too many parties that can get out of here. Advantage This is now the reason why the Dutch government no one accused. Dutch, we assume that the truth does come up. The perpetrators will be punished and it does not matter what place they are. or what position they hold. ChknFngr, NITRO and hxtr 3 Awards
Super Max Posted July 24, 2014 Member ID: 558 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 57 Topic Count: 577 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3788 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 1487 Achievement Points: 29091 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 7 Joined: 10/14/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: Sunday at 11:00 AM Birthday: 06/09/1964 Device: Windows Posted July 24, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlBSiNc-w4Y Awards
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