Joe Canadian Posted June 21, 2015 Member ID: 822 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 87 Topic Count: 317 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5477 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 5025 Achievement Points: 42632 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 20 Joined: 12/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 25, 2023 Birthday: 03/01/1967 Device: Windows Share Posted June 21, 2015 I am not an expert but I think that Boeing and Airbus have been producing great, ultra reliable aircraft for a long time. If you ever get a chance to visit the Boeing plant in Washington State you will learn that both, Boeing and Airbus have been contracting out (outsourcing) at least 60-70% of their components. Sometimes they use the same contractors to provide them with parts: engines, landing gear, cargo doors, windshields, etc. The biggest problem with modern civil aviation has not been aircraft design, but rather terrorism, pilot error +suicidal pilots, and of course Russian air to air and surface to air missiles. A good rule of thumb to follow, at least for me, is that if you can spell it, it is usually safe. I have no problem spelling Boeing or Airbus, but when it comes down to the Tupolevs and Yakovlevs I get really nervous. I wish Olive would speak his mind and tells us, based on his opinion as a pilot (not a proud Frenchman) which aircraft he enjoys flying the most. L!ckALotAPus and hxtr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Phoenix911 Posted June 21, 2015 Member ID: 3723 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 17 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 524 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 543 Achievement Points: 3685 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/14/12 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 11 Birthday: 09/17/1987 Device: Windows Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) ^I have been to the Boeing plant and done the tour and it really is phenomenal...unfortunately could not see the new KC-46 line in action, but saw the rest and was cool to see. Def. recommend for anyone in the NW to visit. Edited June 21, 2015 by Phoenix911 codpiece and hxtr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Leadfinger Posted June 21, 2015 Member ID: 4888 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 56 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2020 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 3795 Achievement Points: 26312 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 3 Joined: 01/12/13 Status: Offline Last Seen: July 29, 2023 Birthday: 08/29/1962 Device: Windows Share Posted June 21, 2015 I tend to favor Boeing but have a great respect for Airbus as they both produce a good quality aircraft. The advances in aviation over the last 100 years has been nothing short of spectacular. As a kid growing up near Ontario International Airport (ONT) I could sit and watch the planes take off and land for hours. I remember seeing the old prop airliners and was blown away when I first saw the 747. Then later seeing the Concord and how fucking loud it was. I will admit . . . . . . . I do own flight simulator FSX and still enjoy flying all the different aircraft . . . . . . . I may be getting older but I refuse to grow up!! Good post @@codpiece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Olive Posted June 21, 2015 Member ID: 69 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 50 Topic Count: 227 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2660 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 4123 Achievement Points: 22968 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 19 Joined: 09/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: Thursday at 06:15 PM Birthday: 05/07/1965 Device: Windows Share Posted June 21, 2015 I am not an expert but I think that Boeing and Airbus have been producing great, ultra reliable aircraft for a long time. If you ever get a chance to visit the Boeing plant in Washington State you will learn that both, Boeing and Airbus have been contracting out (outsourcing) at least 60-70% of their components. Sometimes they use the same contractors to provide them with parts: engines, landing gear, cargo doors, windshields, etc. The biggest problem with modern civil aviation has not been aircraft design, but rather terrorism, pilot error +suicidal pilots, and of course Russian air to air and surface to air missiles. A good rule of thumb to follow, at least for me, is that if you can spell it, it is usually safe. I have no problem spelling Boeing or Airbus, but when it comes down to the Tupolevs and Yakovlevs I get really nervous. I wish Olive would speak his mind and tells us, based on his opinion as a pilot (not a proud Frenchman) which aircraft he enjoys flying the most. I'm not a pilot Joe,I'm doing "loadsheets" for Air France.My job is to be sure ( i mean realy sure lol ) that's the plane is not overwheight and well balanced so it can take-off and fly safely. To do that i work whith pilots everyday,both Airbus and Boeing and from what i hear from them let's say that Boeing is probably more "pilot friendly" than Airbus .They feel more like piloting whith Boeing when it's more like dealing whith a big nice computer whith Airbus.That will probably change whith the new generation of Boeing though . When i manage to go to the Air France flight sim whith some pilots friends i can feel myself as a non-pilot that Boeing(777) is more intuitive and easy to handle than Airbus(320) I can't stand this damn joystick lol there's an inertia in it and i already virtually killed a few hundreds passengers trying to land the 320 lol . Besides that i'm now piloting the 777 like a champ,it's almost like driving my car. From a passenger point of view there's honestly no big differences between Airbus and Boeing exept for the A380 this is the more silent plane ever inside the cabin almost too quiet as you can hear other passengers snoring or farting from 3 rows away lol . Leadfinger, Joe Canadian and hxtr 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
FRENCHI Posted June 21, 2015 Member ID: 1729 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 105 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7521 Content Per Day: 1.51 Reputation: 3632 Achievement Points: 49200 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: September 16, 2021 Birthday: 12/26/1969 Share Posted June 21, 2015 un petit coup d oeil au rafale francais Trasheur123, hxtr and Olive 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
nosjp Posted June 22, 2015 Member ID: 2603 Group: ** Registered Users Followers: 12 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 13 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 22 Achievement Points: 172 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/16/11 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 12 Device: Windows Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'm not a pilot Joe,I'm doing "loadsheets" for Air France.My job is to be sure ( i mean realy sure lol ) that's the plane is not overwheight and well balanced so it can take-off and fly safely. To do that i work whith pilots everyday,both Airbus and Boeing and from what i hear from them let's say that Boeing is probably more "pilot friendly" than Airbus .They feel more like piloting whith Boeing when it's more like dealing whith a big nice computer whith Airbus.That will probably change whith the new generation of Boeing though . When i manage to go to the Air France flight sim whith some pilots friends i can feel myself as a non-pilot that Boeing(777) is more intuitive and easy to handle than Airbus(320) I can't stand this damn joystick lol there's an inertia in it and i already virtually killed a few hundreds passengers trying to land the 320 lol . Besides that i'm now piloting the 777 like a champ,it's almost like driving my car. From a passenger point of view there's honestly no big differences between Airbus and Boeing exept for the A380 this is the more silent plane ever inside the cabin almost too quiet as you can hear other passengers snoring or farting from 3 rows away lol . Indeed. Flying the A380 several times, the experience is unique as passenger. hxtr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hxtr Posted June 22, 2015 Member ID: 220 Group: **- Inactive Registered Users Followers: 147 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 16950 Content Per Day: 3.17 Reputation: 13538 Achievement Points: 129713 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 120 Joined: 09/04/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 26, 2023 Birthday: 04/05/1970 Device: Windows Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'm not a pilot Joe,I'm doing "loadsheets" for Air France.My job is to be sure ( i mean realy sure lol ) that's the plane is not overwheight and well balanced so it can take-off and fly safely. To do that i work whith pilots everyday,both Airbus and Boeing and from what i hear from them let's say that Boeing is probably more "pilot friendly" than Airbus .They feel more like piloting whith Boeing when it's more like dealing whith a big nice computer whith Airbus.That will probably change whith the new generation of Boeing though . When i manage to go to the Air France flight sim whith some pilots friends i can feel myself as a non-pilot that Boeing(777) is more intuitive and easy to handle than Airbus(320) I can't stand this damn joystick lol there's an inertia in it and i already virtually killed a few hundreds passengers trying to land the 320 lol . Besides that i'm now piloting the 777 like a champ,it's almost like driving my car. From a passenger point of view there's honestly no big differences between Airbus and Boeing exept for the A380 this is the more silent plane ever inside the cabin almost too quiet as you can hear other passengers snoring or farting from 3 rows away lol . Oh man.. so you can't fart and get away with it like before? Then it is Boeing for me. OK we get all that about your job... now lets address why you're not a proud French man as Joe says? Olive and Joe Canadian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyNashville Posted June 22, 2015 Member ID: 25938 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 21 Topic Count: 343 Topics Per Day: 0.14 Content Count: 1493 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 284 Achievement Points: 13299 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/17 Status: Offline Last Seen: December 25, 2022 Birthday: 08/08/1961 Share Posted June 22, 2015 If it aint Boeing I'm not going! What you said brother! aj codpiece 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olive Posted June 22, 2015 Member ID: 69 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 50 Topic Count: 227 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2660 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 4123 Achievement Points: 22968 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 19 Joined: 09/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: Thursday at 06:15 PM Birthday: 05/07/1965 Device: Windows Share Posted June 22, 2015 Indeed. Flying the A380 several times, the experience is unique as passenger. Here's two videos i took in the 380 . In the first one i'm filming my seat screen showing take-off and landing from the tail camera...you barely hear the engines sound which is quite amazing especialy for take-off The second one is from the cockpit.The video itself is not so good but there's a good view of the joystick.How they can pilot this huge plane whith just a joystick that's something i don't understand lol Ps: sorry codpiece i've got no Boeing video Leadfinger, hxtr, JohnnyDos and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Leadfinger Posted June 22, 2015 Member ID: 4888 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 56 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2020 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 3795 Achievement Points: 26312 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 3 Joined: 01/12/13 Status: Offline Last Seen: July 29, 2023 Birthday: 08/29/1962 Device: Windows Share Posted June 22, 2015 When I clicked on the first video it say's its private and wont play Did you get your personal home porn movies mixed up with the Airbus video you intended to post . . . lol J/K Thanks for posting these videos @@Olive idiots love videos hxtr and FRENCHI 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Olive Posted June 22, 2015 Member ID: 69 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 50 Topic Count: 227 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2660 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 4123 Achievement Points: 22968 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 19 Joined: 09/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: Thursday at 06:15 PM Birthday: 05/07/1965 Device: Windows Share Posted June 22, 2015 When I clicked on the first video it say's its private and wont play Did you get your personal home porn movies mixed up with the Airbus video you intended to post . . . lol J/K Thanks for posting these videos @@Olive idiots love videos It's fixed i think ...please refrain from watching if it's too personal Joe Canadian and hxtr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
FRENCHI Posted June 22, 2015 Member ID: 1729 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 105 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7521 Content Per Day: 1.51 Reputation: 3632 Achievement Points: 49200 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: September 16, 2021 Birthday: 12/26/1969 Share Posted June 22, 2015 olive in here lol c est pour toi olive les autres n ont qu a parlé français lol .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUrwwOlkbU4 codpiece and Olive 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
codpiece Posted June 22, 2015 Member ID: 5470 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 52 Topic Count: 371 Topics Per Day: 0.09 Content Count: 2482 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 3552 Achievement Points: 22894 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 7 Joined: 02/04/13 Status: Offline Last Seen: 10 hours ago Birthday: 09/17/1968 Device: Windows Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) I'm not a pilot Joe,I'm doing "loadsheets" for Air France.My job is to be sure ( i mean realy sure lol ) that's the plane is not overwheight and well balanced so it can take-off and fly safely. To do that i work whith pilots everyday,both Airbus and Boeing and from what i hear from them let's say that Boeing is probably more "pilot friendly" than Airbus .They feel more like piloting whith Boeing when it's more like dealing whith a big nice computer whith Airbus.That will probably change whith the new generation of Boeing though . When i manage to go to the Air France flight sim whith some pilots friends i can feel myself as a non-pilot that Boeing(777) is more intuitive and easy to handle than Airbus(320) I can't stand this damn joystick lol there's an inertia in it and i already virtually killed a few hundreds passengers trying to land the 320 lol . Besides that i'm now piloting the 777 like a champ,it's almost like driving my car. From a passenger point of view there's honestly no big differences between Airbus and Boeing exept for the A380 this is the more silent plane ever inside the cabin almost too quiet as you can hear other passengers snoring or farting from 3 rows away lol . Well said @@Olive. I have yet to meet an Airbus pilot, with previous Boeing experience, that does not prefer the Boeing. I could go into detail as to why, but I don't want to bore you guys. What Olive said is absolutely correct. If you want to pilot a jet you pick a Boeing. If you just want to be a voting member in a flight control system comprised of computers doing your thinking, then pick Airbus. If you want an intuitive cockpit, pick a Boeing. If you like a cockpit with backward switches, a flight management system that must be tricked fucked to get it to do what you want but room to cross your legs in the pilot seat then pick Airbus. If you prefer your jet to be piloted by pilots making the decisions and not a set of computers that think they know best then pick Airbus. One of the overriding design objectives of Airbus is the ability of idiots in the third world and Asia to learn to sit in the pilot seat and monitor the systems. Edited June 22, 2015 by codpiece Olive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Joe Canadian Posted June 24, 2015 Member ID: 822 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 87 Topic Count: 317 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5477 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 5025 Achievement Points: 42632 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 20 Joined: 12/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 25, 2023 Birthday: 03/01/1967 Device: Windows Share Posted June 24, 2015 Oh man.. so you can't fart and get away with it like before? Then it is Boeing for me. OK we get all that about your job... now lets address why you're not a proud French man as Joe says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Joe Canadian Posted June 24, 2015 Member ID: 822 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 87 Topic Count: 317 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5477 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 5025 Achievement Points: 42632 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 20 Joined: 12/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 25, 2023 Birthday: 03/01/1967 Device: Windows Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Oh man.. so you can't fart and get away with it like before? Then it is Boeing for me. OK we get all that about your job... now lets address why you're not a proud French man as Joe says? I am sure Olive is a proud Frenchman, and to be honest the only grudge I hold against him was that his team defeated the hxtr-Joe team in the tube tourney finals. Olive's team won gold and we, as the runner ups placed third and got the bronze medal. (FU Beers for this lol) We have some class French XI members: Corsica, Frenchi, Exe, with the exception of Budman, who is not at all French, but who would make a perfect example of what a bad, fucked up Frenchman would probably look like. ;-) Edited June 24, 2015 by Joe Canadian Olive and hxtr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
hxtr Posted June 24, 2015 Member ID: 220 Group: **- Inactive Registered Users Followers: 147 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 16950 Content Per Day: 3.17 Reputation: 13538 Achievement Points: 129713 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 120 Joined: 09/04/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 26, 2023 Birthday: 04/05/1970 Device: Windows Share Posted June 24, 2015 I am sure Olive is a proud Frenchman, and to be honest the only grudge I hold against him was that his team defeated the hxtr-Joe team in the tube tourney finals. Olive's team won gold and we, as the runner ups placed third and got the bronze medal. (FU Beers for this lol) We have some class French XI members: Corsica, Frenchi, Exe, with the exception of Budman, who is not at all French, but who would make a perfect example of what a bad, fucked up Frenchman would probably look like. ;-) Joe your memory is impeccable. We were kind of robbed on that Tube Tourney. It was all Beer's fault. Budman is always taking french and I never can understand him. Try and translate and I get a Syntax Error saying punkbuster has been disabled. Joe Canadian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Canadian Posted June 25, 2015 Member ID: 822 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 87 Topic Count: 317 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5477 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 5025 Achievement Points: 42632 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 20 Joined: 12/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 25, 2023 Birthday: 03/01/1967 Device: Windows Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Joe your memory is impeccable. We were kind of robbed on that Tube Tourney. It was all Beer's fault. Budman is always taking french and I never can understand him. Try and translate and I get a Syntax Error saying punkbuster has been disabled. We were the dream team hxtr and it was all a conspiracy from Beers, another potential Frenchman with a syntax error due to extreme alcohol consumption Don't sweat it with Budman, he hangs out with TBB haha, that explains everything Edited June 25, 2015 by Joe Canadian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Phoenix911 Posted June 26, 2015 Member ID: 3723 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 17 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 524 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 543 Achievement Points: 3685 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/14/12 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 11 Birthday: 09/17/1987 Device: Windows Share Posted June 26, 2015 hxtr and Joe Canadian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Joe Canadian Posted June 27, 2015 Member ID: 822 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 87 Topic Count: 317 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5477 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 5025 Achievement Points: 42632 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 20 Joined: 12/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 25, 2023 Birthday: 03/01/1967 Device: Windows Share Posted June 27, 2015 Beautiful aircraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
hxtr Posted June 27, 2015 Member ID: 220 Group: **- Inactive Registered Users Followers: 147 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 16950 Content Per Day: 3.17 Reputation: 13538 Achievement Points: 129713 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 120 Joined: 09/04/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 26, 2023 Birthday: 04/05/1970 Device: Windows Share Posted June 27, 2015 I used to live on Kelly AFB back in the early 70's for 4 years. I lived 2 blocks from the runway and seen planes constantly. C-5 fly over my house landing or taking off depending on wind direction and it looked like you could throw a rock at them.. freaking huge plane. I would take the time to count the 28 wheels as it flew over about to land.. That A380 is a huge plane.... 22 wheels WOW!!! Like Joe said.. beautiful plane. Here was my house... here is some things I got to see.... the Space Shuttle was parked two blocks from me. I shook president Fords hand on that runway. I would post a couple pictures but it seems to be up. lol Joe Canadian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix911 Posted June 27, 2015 Member ID: 3723 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 17 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 524 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 543 Achievement Points: 3685 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/14/12 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 11 Birthday: 09/17/1987 Device: Windows Share Posted June 27, 2015 The A380 is beautiful, but I was trying to link it to the A350 near vertical take-off at about 18 min i believe showing the A350 could do exactly what the 787 could....and IMO, A350 is one sleek looking aircraft, even sexier than the 787, even with the racoon eyes lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Joe Canadian Posted June 28, 2015 Member ID: 822 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 87 Topic Count: 317 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5477 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 5025 Achievement Points: 42632 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 20 Joined: 12/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 25, 2023 Birthday: 03/01/1967 Device: Windows Share Posted June 28, 2015 It's fixed i think ...please refrain from watching if it's too personal I'd like to watch your private porn videos as well Olive but I can't find them. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Joe Canadian Posted June 28, 2015 Member ID: 822 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 87 Topic Count: 317 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5477 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 5025 Achievement Points: 42632 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 20 Joined: 12/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 25, 2023 Birthday: 03/01/1967 Device: Windows Share Posted June 28, 2015 I used to live on Kelly AFB back in the early 70's for 4 years. I lived 2 blocks from the runway and seen planes constantly. C-5 fly over my house landing or taking off depending on wind direction and it looked like you could throw a rock at them.. freaking huge plane. I would take the time to count the 28 wheels as it flew over about to land.. That A380 is a huge plane.... 22 wheels WOW!!! Like Joe said.. beautiful plane. Here was my house... here is some things I got to see.... the Space Shuttle was parked two blocks from me. I shook president Fords hand on that runway. I would post a couple pictures but it seems to be up. lol Air shows can be a doubled-edge sword at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Olive Posted June 28, 2015 Member ID: 69 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 50 Topic Count: 227 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2660 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 4123 Achievement Points: 22968 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 19 Joined: 09/02/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: Thursday at 06:15 PM Birthday: 05/07/1965 Device: Windows Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'd like to watch your private porn videos as well Olive but I can't find them. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
FRENCHI Posted June 28, 2015 Member ID: 1729 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 105 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7521 Content Per Day: 1.51 Reputation: 3632 Achievement Points: 49200 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: September 16, 2021 Birthday: 12/26/1969 Share Posted June 28, 2015 oui malheureusement des pleines pages d accidents terrible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIjO0sKBDDw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
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