Dec 7th - A date which will live in infamy

[loaderXI]

DECEMBER 7TH  A date which will live in infamy

 

We shall never forget this day that not only knocked the America to its knees but truly did awaken a fighting force

and a steadfast American people to turn into one of the greatest war machines ever seen....

 

 

 

Franklin Delano Roosevelt would deliver the very next morning his famous address to the American people and

the World would hear --> 

 

 

Let us all remember those today that died and there families and also the lives that would forever be changed and take pride in knowing when the bell was rung America stood up and went to work building itself into a Fighting force to be reckoned with..

 

Pearl Harbor would be avenged and America would rise as the Greatest industrialized Country ever

 

 

 

Thank you to those men and women who gave there all !

God blessed us then with that generation

[7Toes]

look at us now everyone in the world hates us close to 20 trillion in debt and still printing funny money...millionaires in office not helping the working person but his or her billionaire friends oh yea.just hang onto your asses the dollar will collapse we will be that 3rd world country Obama is striving for

[loaderXI]

look at us now everyone in the world hates us close to 20 trillion in debt and still printing funny money...millionaires in office not helping the working person but his or her billionaire friends oh yea.just hang onto your asses the dollar will collapse we will be that 3rd world country Obama is striving for

It has been predicted in years gone by that the USA would have to reach third world status before it could ever rise again !

 

Are we now today living it and riding it into the ground or just setting it up for the next few generations ?

[hxtr]

Yep the Bankers Needed a War to get us out of the great depression. Plus all the technology created.

easy to enslave us today. Fucking Bankers!!!!

[PimpedOutPete]

America is the greatest industrial nation and the deciding force that eventually ended both wars. But let's not forget those nations who didn't wait to fight tyrany, and chose to send their sons to fight and die on foreign soil..

 

God bless all of those who fought and died so we could all remain free. For they are all from the greatest generation in my book.

[DEEJAYKEG]

Winston Churchill was greatly relieved when Hitler declared war on the United States several days later, thus bringing

an ally to the UK's side.  Had the USA remained neutral in Europe, the outcome could have been greatly different.

[loaderXI]

Winston Churchill was greatly relieved when Hitler declared war on the United States several days later, thus bringing

an ally to the UK's side.  Had the USA remained neutral in Europe, the outcome could have been greatly different.

America was supplying the UK with armaments very early on but didnt want to join the fight because the citizens were not willing to .....Pearl Harbor changed the American thinking..

 

My Grandfather sailed the MS East Indian 216812 with hidden supplies he was a Engineer on her for years...She was a Steamer

 

 

The East Indian was torpedoed of the horn of Africa by a German Uboat U-181 Nov. 3 1942 and my Grandfathers final sail on her was April 4th 1942

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2KS6sfqM0fOM3kydG9SOHV0NDA/view

 

[Sonovabich]

Winston Churchill was greatly relieved when Hitler declared war on the United States several days later, thus bringing

an ally to the UK's side.  Had the USA remained neutral in Europe, the outcome could have been greatly different.

Think the Russians would have finished Hitler off all on their lonesome m8 but then we would all probably be speaking Russian now.

[little_old_man]

America was supplying the UK with armaments very early on but didnt want to join the fight because the citizens were not willing to .....Pearl Harbor changed the American thinking..

 

My Grandfather sailed the MS East Indian 216812 with hidden supplies he was a Engineer on her for years...She was a Steamer

 

 

The East Indian was torpedoed of the horn of Africa by a German Uboat U-181 Nov. 3 1942 and my Grandfathers final sail on her was April 4th 1942

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2KS6sfqM0fOM3kydG9SOHV0NDA/view

 

 

That's a great piece of history you have there Loader. My dad's brother ran away from home at age 13 and joined the merchant marines. He was on many of those trip across the Atlantic to the UK before the US entered the war, then he enlisted in 1944 at age 17 and was shipped to the south Pacific to fight the japs. He died when I was a baby so I never knew him, but my dad said he was tough as nails.

[loaderXI]

My grandpop pictures of her engine room

[hxtr]

America is the greatest industrial nation and the deciding force that eventually ended both wars. But let's not forget those nations who didn't wait to fight tyrany, and chose to send their sons to fight and die on foreign soil..

 

God bless all of those who fought and died so we could all remain free. For they are all from the greatest generation in my book.

Wow Pete. That was beautiful.

[Leadfinger]

America was supplying the UK with armaments very early on but didnt want to join the fight because the citizens were not willing to .....Pearl Harbor changed the American thinking..

 

My Grandfather sailed the MS East Indian 216812 with hidden supplies he was a Engineer on her for years...She was a Steamer

 

 

The East Indian was torpedoed of the horn of Africa by a German Uboat U-181 Nov. 3 1942 and my Grandfathers final sail on her was April 4th 1942

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2KS6sfqM0fOM3kydG9SOHV0NDA/view

 

I followed the link you gave here and ended up spending almost 4 hours on various websites reading about WWII and the ships lost by U boats.

Thanks @loaderXI  . . .great reading

[AyaqGuyaq]

I gotta disagreed with you, SOB.  The Nazis expended great resources constructing the Atlantic Wall for the invasion that they knew would come since America entered the war.  Further, the Russians enjoyed air supremacy in the Russian theater because the German fighters were needed to protect Germany from the English and American bombers.  Flying Russian tank-killers, especially the Ilyushin IL-2 Sturmovik (not sure I'm spelling that right) flew unmolested while smashing German tanks.

 

At any rate, thank God that travesty is over, and I agree that we should pay homage to those that have given their all on the way to the eventual Allied victory.

 

Hate to admit it, but the Brits produced some of the most beautiful planes in the air, like the Avro Lancaster, the DeHaviland Mosquito, and (especially) the Supermarine Spitfire.  The Lancaster was the heaviest-hitting bomber until the B-29 entered service.  The plywood-built Mosquito--with its twin Merlin engines--was the fastest plane in the air until the arrival of the Messerschmidt (spelling question here) ME-262 Swallow, and the Mosquito performed brilliantly in its photo-reconnaissance role.  The Spitfire was more than a match (especially after being fitted with cannon instead of 8, .303-caliber machine guns) for the ME-109 and the FW-190.  The Spitfire, with its carbureted engine, lost its turning and climbing advantage when it went into a dive; the German planes had fuel-injected engines and, therefore, were not prone to sputtering engines in a dive.

 

I digress.  But, I've typed too much to hold the backspace key down, now.

 

The good guys won, albeit at tremendous sacrifice for all involved.  Ayaq

[Sonovabich]

The Atlantic wall was a shambles as Rommel found out to his disgust after he took  Command, they can't have used too many resources on it before 1944? they hardly strengthened it at all until early 1944, (just a few months before D-DAY) when Rommel took command.

 

Hitler ordered the construction of the fortifications in 1942. Almost a million French workers were drafted to build it. The wall was frequently mentioned in Nazi propaganda, where its size and strength were usually exaggerated. The fortifications included colossal coastal guns, batteries, mortars, and artillery, and thousands of German troops were stationed in its defences.[a] When the Allies eventually invaded the Normandy beaches in 1944, most of the defenses were stormed within hours. Today, ruins of the wall exist in all of the nations where the wall was built, although many structures have fallen into the ocean or have been demolished over the years.

Early in 1944, with an Allied invasion of Nazi-occupied Europe becoming ever more likely, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel was assigned to improve the wall's defences.[5][8] Believing the existing coastal fortifications to be entirely inadequate, he immediately began strengthening them.[8] Rommel's main concern was Allied air power. He had seen it first-hand when fighting the British and Americans in North Africa, and it had left a profound impression on him.[8] He feared that any German counterattack would be broken up by Allied aircraft long before it could make a difference.[8] Under his direction, hundreds of reinforced concrete pillboxes were built on the beaches, or sometimes slightly inland, to house machine guns, antitank guns, and light and heavy artillery. Land mines and antitank obstacles were planted on the beaches, and underwater obstacles and naval mines were placed in waters just offshore.[9] The intent was to destroy the Allied landing craft before they could unload on the beaches.[9]

Edited December 17, 2015 by Sonovabich

[TheLastColdBeer]

Here you go SOB, speaking of the Atlantic Wall. I knew HMS Ramilles was one of the bombardment ships, but never knew the extent of her gunfire support until I read this article. Damn, over a thousand 15" shells lobbed into Normandy, must have been hell on the receiving end.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/00/a1125000.shtml

[AyaqGuyaq]

Yeah, SOB's right: the Russians could have done it on their own without American involvement--NOT!!!

 

Read up on your history, male offspring of a mother and father.  I'm not sure why it seems to me that you're totally discounting America's role in the ultimate WWII victory.  It wasn't just the damned Atlantic Wall with which Germany had to expend its resources.  Many anti-aircraft guns were deployed to defend Germany's cities (Berlin was indeed the most heavily-defended city in the world) from the American's relentless day-bombing and the British's night-bombing raids.  Those guns could have otherwise been deployed to the Russian front.

 

The Americans and Brits were also coming up the "soft underbelly" of the Nazis; i.e., Italy.  Hitler transferred several divisions from the Soviet front to help the Italians defend the push, even after Mussolini was executed.

 

America had its enormous industrial might cranked up to the hilt.  The Liberty ships shipped millions upon millions of tons of cargo overseas, not just to supply our own troops, but to supply our allies and its citizens as well.  The Americans deployed long-range bombers (most notably the B-24 Liberator, equipped with radar developed by the British) and the Catalina "Flying Boat" to hunt the submarines that were sinking the supply ships on their way to Britain.  Thanks to the work of the Brits deciphering the Enigma code at Bletchley Park, and the Polish personnel that initially had made great strides on cracking the code, the Allies were able to protect its supply convoys much more effectively.  If the U-Boats couldn't be sunk, the convoys would maneuver around the Wolf Packs, particularly in the "Black Gap."

 

See, SOB?  There's another example of the Nazis spending valuable, finite resources to stem the unending flow of American war material and other goods to Britain.  When the Americans and Brits (and I'd be remiss to not include our other staunch allies, the Canadians and the Australians) were pushing east towards Germany, Hitler launched his last major offensive of WWII--a counter-attack against the Americans at the Ardennes forest--the "Battle of the Bulge."

 

These examples are only a few that pop to mind.  I'm not googling anything, just typing from my still-functional memory banks.  If the United States of America HAD NOT joined the cause, how many more atrocities do you think would have been committed by the Nazis? 

 

I shudder at even the thought.  Ayaq.

[Sonovabich]

Yeah, SOB's right: the Russians could have done it on their own without American involvement--NOT!!!

 

Read up on your history, male offspring of a mother and father.  I'm not sure why it seems to me that you're totally discounting America's role in the ultimate WWII victory.  It wasn't just the damned Atlantic Wall with which Germany had to expend its resources.  Many anti-aircraft guns were deployed to defend Germany's cities (Berlin was indeed the most heavily-defended city in the world) from the American's relentless day-bombing and the British's night-bombing raids.  Those guns could have otherwise been deployed to the Russian front.

 

The Americans and Brits were also coming up the "soft underbelly" of the Nazis; i.e., Italy.  Hitler transferred several divisions from the Soviet front to help the Italians defend the push, even after Mussolini was executed.

 

America had its enormous industrial might cranked up to the hilt.  The Liberty ships shipped millions upon millions of tons of cargo overseas, not just to supply our own troops, but to supply our allies and its citizens as well.  The Americans deployed long-range bombers (most notably the B-24 Liberator, equipped with radar developed by the British) and the Catalina "Flying Boat" to hunt the submarines that were sinking the supply ships on their way to Britain.  Thanks to the work of the Brits deciphering the Enigma code at Bletchley Park, and the Polish personnel that initially had made great strides on cracking the code, the Allies were able to protect its supply convoys much more effectively.  If the U-Boats couldn't be sunk, the convoys would maneuver around the Wolf Packs, particularly in the "Black Gap."

 

See, SOB?  There's another example of the Nazis spending valuable, finite resources to stem the unending flow of American war material and other goods to Britain.  When the Americans and Brits (and I'd be remiss to not include our other staunch allies, the Canadians and the Australians) were pushing east towards Germany, Hitler launched his last major offensive of WWII--a counter-attack against the Americans at the Ardennes forest--the "Battle of the Bulge."

 

These examples are only a few that pop to mind.  I'm not googling anything, just typing from my still-functional memory banks.  If the United States of America HAD NOT joined the cause, how many more atrocities do you think would have been committed by the Nazis? 

 

I shudder at even the thought.  Ayaq.

 Thanks i knew i was right, where do I say that i am discounting America's role in WW2? all i am saying is what i believe, that Germany would never have defeated the Soviet Union/Russia, Napoleon discovered the same thing 150 years before, Hitler lost the war the day he invaded Russia and many of his Generals said so...but you sound annoyed that you never won the war on your own m8?. Also you really should Google some stuff, because by 1944 there were barely any Australian ground troops in the European Theatre, most were Pilots and most of those were never used because by that time of the war we had too many Aircrews, Australian troops (rightly so) were defending their own country and fighting the Japanese mostly in Burma, but don't get annoyed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_contribution_to_the_Battle_of_Normandy

Edited December 18, 2015 by Sonovabich

[TheLastColdBeer]

Yes, if you read accounts written by the German officers and soldiers that experienced Barbarossa, you'll get the idea. They had no concept of the Russian vastness. No idea of the distances, and the primitive conditions that existed on the steppes. They were wholly unprepared for the logistic nightmare of supplying armies in the field a thousand miles from supply sources, without road or rail.

And then it snowed...

[AyaqGuyaq]

Lol.  Great discussion, I love it--could go on for pages.  It helps to understand where we are today by understanding where we were yesterday.

 

The Axis lost, and the Good Guys won.  That about sums it, don't you think?  Ayaq

[Leadfinger]

Lol.  Great discussion, I love it--could go on for pages.  It helps to understand where we are today by understanding where we were yesterday.

 

The Axis lost, and the Good Guys won.  That about sums it, don't you think?  Ayaq

It wont be easy, but "Good" must prevail over the "Evil" ISIS terrorists

 

 

75 years from now it would be interesting to be able to read a post like this about the events that took place in the war against ISIS,

 

[TheLastColdBeer]

Yep, and the first thing the history books are going to ask is what kind of a lame brain commander would tell the world exactly when he's pulling out of disputed territory, and that he's not going to do anything to shore up a fledgling government that was just installed. Sweet pickings for free, any takers? Welcome to the birth of ISIS.

Who was it that said "Evil needs only that good should do nothing to succeed"?

[PimpedOutPete]

I get the impression that history will treat these times in the same light as they did for the Vietnam War. A foreign policy blunder that cost countless number of lives that had no real chance of success. Do we really think history will remember the specifics on who was responsible for what? Bush or Obama? Do most people outside historians remember who was more responsible, Kennedy, Johnson or Nixon for the Vietnam War?

 

War is not an end onto itself. It's that wanted marriage between war and politics that fuels these conflicts.

[little_old_man]

A few years from now when the facts of this current middle east conflict are better known, I think the world will realize that while the US and our allies haven't been intentionally aiding ISIS, we have been indirectly because of the stupidity of the current US administration.  Neither the Republicans or the Democrats seem to have a clue why all of this shit is going down or how to stop it. The vaccum left in Iraq after we pulled out is only a small piece of the puzzle.

 

While this video doesn't offer much hope from either party for stopping the conflict, it does give an excellent reason for how and why it all started, and it wasn't because of any outside influence from the west.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnNBbm1YQyg

[AyaqGuyaq]

Good Lord--some people remind me of my ex-wife; i.e., can't see the forest through the trees.  Penny-wise but pound-foolish.  Plus, she liked to dissect every word I said while failing to see the whole, bigger point.

 

I didn't say you were right, SOB--hence the utterance "NOT!!!!" at the end of my first line.  I was totally disagreeing with you.  Sigh.  I'm done with this topic.  Ayaq

[DEEJAYKEG]

The Atlantic wall was a shambles as Rommel found out to his disgust after he took  Command, they can't have used too many resources on it before 1944? they hardly strengthened it at all until early 1944, (just a few months before D-DAY) when Rommel took command.

 

Hitler ordered the construction of the fortifications in 1942. Almost a million French workers were drafted to build it. The wall was frequently mentioned in Nazi propaganda, where its size and strength were usually exaggerated. The fortifications included colossal coastal guns, batteries, mortars, and artillery, and thousands of German troops were stationed in its defences.[a] When the Allies eventually invaded the Normandy beaches in 1944, most of the defenses were stormed within hours. Today, ruins of the wall exist in all of the nations where the wall was built, although many structures have fallen into the ocean or have been demolished over the years.

Early in 1944, with an Allied invasion of Nazi-occupied Europe becoming ever more likely, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel was assigned to improve the wall's defences.[5][8] Believing the existing coastal fortifications to be entirely inadequate, he immediately began strengthening them.[8] Rommel's main concern was Allied air power. He had seen it first-hand when fighting the British and Americans in North Africa, and it had left a profound impression on him.[8] He feared that any German counterattack would be broken up by Allied aircraft long before it could make a difference.[8] Under his direction, hundreds of reinforced concrete pillboxes were built on the beaches, or sometimes slightly inland, to house machine guns, antitank guns, and light and heavy artillery. Land mines and antitank obstacles were planted on the beaches, and underwater obstacles and naval mines were placed in waters just offshore.[9] The intent was to destroy the Allied landing craft before they could unload on the beaches.[9]

 

Attribution?!

 

You'd be kicked out of the university, fella!

 

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Wall