Sign in to follow this  
DramaLlama

House construction question

Recommended Posts

My question is about the sill plate in the picture below:
IMG_20180312_150204.thumb.jpg.f279d1d7f58e1ab19d56c972fd3e3a45.jpg

 

On the right side, there is about a 1/2 inch of the plate on the foundation, so it is barely hanging on (No idea what idiot thought this was a good idea).  It is kinda hard to see, but the plate is bowing a bit, and there is a crack starting to form in the plate under the rightmost joist hanger and follows the grain.  On the floor above, there is a brick hearth, so there is quite a bit of weight on this area. My first thought was to frame in a header since it is a 40 inch opening.  However, the floor directly under the plate is some patchwork concrete that is very rough and not level, so it would be difficult to frame.

What can I do to fix this problem with the sill plate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LaRSin said:

It looks like a 2x6 on top of a 2x4 , and should be enough , I see what your talking about , but the 2x6 goes straight across .As long as bricks that support it are fine.

 

Hello no. There is very very little strength in a board that's turned sideways. That bottom board is the Seal plate. A seal plate is usually Pined or bolted to the foundation and the Joists are nailed to the seal plate.

 

There needs to be some sort of Header installed since it is definitely load bearing. And a Reinforced Concrete Lintel will not be enough to hold that kind of load. 3  2x10s glued and screwed or glued and nailed together and 6" to 8" (or more if you want) wider than the opening. 

Use 3 2x10s minimal. Use 3x12s if you have room to get them in. That's ALOT of weight up there. An average sized fireplace and chimney can easily weigh 5 ton+ and that's just for the Brick work.  

Here this will help you Alot. Skip down to where it says Step 1. It's a bit of work but it will save your fireplace and chimney from crashing through the floor. Looks like you have some water staining on the joists. I would call someone in and have them inspect the brickwork after you jack up the floor and install the header. Brickwork can be resealed if they are not to bad.

 

https://www.oneprojectcloser.com/how-to-replace-a-load-bearing-door-header/

 

I was a licensed and insured contractor before I got hurt. Me and my 5 man crew did the Framing, roofing, plumbing, electric and kitchen installs. My boss and his small 3 man group were the Masons. They did the foundations and concrete and stone work and driveways and sidewalks. Then we had a 6 man Finishing crew that did all of the pretty stuff like insulation, drywall, flooring, paint, trim and siding.  We contracted out the HVAC stuff for insurance purposes.   

Edited by J3st3rXI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was wondering what the use is as well.  I'm wondering if the courses of block and brick under those bearing points have cells grouted solid or not...  It also looks like there is some minor water damage in that area as well.  Do you plan on turning that into a closet or something useful?

What is the abandoned joist hanger for?  Why does it look like the first joist to the right of the opening isn't attached to the floor beam (no hanger, can't see any toenailed framing nails)?

Looking at this, the 2x4 isn't doing anything.  It literally isn't supporting the load of the floor above.  The floor beam spanning that opening is doing all the work.  You can cut that out and it won't affect anything.  HOWEVER, based on the fact that it's bowing, there may be more of an issue than that sill plate.  The floor beam spanning that opening is being overloaded and thus probably also bowing.  

There are a few options you can do. 

OPTION #1 - if you don't care about losing some of that space, or having access to the full 40" opening, you can get an adjustable steel column to and place it mid-span, to shore up and straighten the bow in the 2x4 sill.  Then, add another 2x6 (or whatever the floor joist structure is) to span the opening, strengthening that area.  Make sure you have a minimum of 6" of bearing on each end of that opening.  If it doesn't bother you, leave the column in there.  On the right side, take a 6x4 member, cut to the height of that brick wall, and place it at the right end, under the sill plate to allow for 5.25"(+/-) more of bearing at that end.  Make sure the 6x4 is anchored to the wall, the floor and the sill, using steel straps.

OPTION #2 (better option) - Purchase two 4x6 to use for columns at each end of the opening.  Build a header to span over the two columns using (2) 2x8.  Attach the columns to the wall and floor and the header. (See attached sketch)

With either option, I would still attach another floor beam over that opening with a minimum 6" bearing each end.

As for bearing at an opening, typically, for a 40" opening, you need a minimum 6" bearing on each end of the opening .  

Just FYI, I work in the structural engineering field.  Currently employed in a full architecture/engineering firm in the structural engineering department.

image.png

Edited by Hawk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

cut a 4x6 the width of the opening. Jack it up underneath the bowing 2x4 until straight. Put lolly columns on each side and walk away. That's the easiest fix without opening up a can of worms and emptying your pockets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Jester but it looks like you don't have a whole lot of room on the inside I would jack it up level one jack right in the middle... and with a 4x4 piece of wood you can jack it up level then on each side glue and screw a 2x10 run those at least .if you can,at least 3 feet on either side of that span notching out for the cross beams...unless you want to cut those back and use joist hangers again.(more work)....also once in place the 2x10's get metal shims to tighten up any spots....since we are only using 2 2x10's and the space in the basement under the fire place isn't really being used...for added measure add a metal support/load bearing collum right next to the 2 ends of the cider block walls(one on each side) ...making sure they are inside flush,meaning they don't protrude out into the room so if you ever want to put a wall there....

what do you think Jester?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I forgot how much sag do you have upstairs by the fireplace?   to find out ,you will need at least an 8 foot level...lay it parallel with the hearth then the opposite coming out from the fireplace towards the room...that is how you will find how far up to jack it...when the dip is level and there is no space or minimal space under the level.....   good luck and while your working...you must listen to Pantera and loud !!!   :band:

 

:guitar:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Hawk said:

I was wondering what the use is as well.  I'm wondering if the courses of block and brick under those bearing points have cells grouted solid or not...  It also looks like there is some minor water damage in that area as well.  Do you plan on turning that into a closet or something useful?

What is the abandoned joist hanger for?  Why does it look like the first joist to the right of the opening isn't attached to the floor beam (no hanger, can't see any toenailed framing nails)?

Looking at this, the 2x4 isn't doing anything.  It literally isn't supporting the load of the floor above.  The floor beam spanning that opening is doing all the work.  You can cut that out and it won't affect anything.  HOWEVER, based on the fact that it's bowing, there may be more of an issue than that sill plate.  The floor beam spanning that opening is being overloaded and thus probably also bowing.  

There are a few options you can do. 

OPTION #1 - if you don't care about losing some of that space, or having access to the full 40" opening, you can get an adjustable steel column to and place it mid-span, to shore up and straighten the bow in the 2x4 sill.  Then, add another 2x6 (or whatever the floor joist structure is) to span the opening, strengthening that area.  Make sure you have a minimum of 6" of bearing on each end of that opening.  If it doesn't bother you, leave the column in there.  On the right side, take a 6x4 member, cut to the height of that brick wall, and place it at the right end, under the sill plate to allow for 5.25"(+/-) more of bearing at that end.  Make sure the 6x4 is anchored to the wall, the floor and the sill, using steel straps.

OPTION #2 (better option) - Purchase two 4x6 to use for columns at each end of the opening.  Build a header to span over the two columns using (2) 2x8.  Attach the columns to the wall and floor and the header. (See attached sketch)

With either option, I would still attach another floor beam over that opening with a minimum 6" bearing each end.

As for bearing at an opening, typically, for a 40" opening, you need a minimum 6" bearing on each end of the opening .  

Just FYI, I work in the structural engineering field.  Currently employed in a full architecture/engineering firm in the structural engineering department.

image.png

 

 

Well there you go.......Just send $5000 to this p.o box and he'll hook you right/...;)  Just a few of his last projects for references... Good luck..

91f4664adb7809c662bd7f1f80dd85e8--job-memes-funny-memes.jpg

Picture19.png

2655e26ecee57fcc04d19a035f529a75.jpg

Edited by ANGU5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After you straighten the joist,if the floor is questionable and you don't want to get into footer work, you could take advantage of the alcove for support and bolt a piece of steel and gluelamb to the existing joist bearing on the alcove block walls thus not requiring any jack posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhhh, Just put an adjust-a-post under it with a 2X8 spanning below and it will be all good.

Or, Just frame it in. The wood over that distance will be OK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • If you are logged in and cannot contribute to a post then you may need to join the 'club' for the game area you are in. To view a list of all our new clubs visit here: https://www.xtremeidiots.com/clubs/