questioning a player's play is now complaining?

chomama · February 11, 2015

Tonight I was playing MW2 server, and a number of us were questioning another player that we thought had some suspicious play.

An admin told us to stop complaining, and stop talking about it.

This included a few respected players who i don't perceive as complainers (except for myself, I'm a supreme bitcher, i admit) I'll let them chime in if they read this and want to.

I get the Admins are doing their job, and we are trying to keep the bitching down, which i've been working on as of late, but I don't see how questioning suspicious play is complaining. With Cod4 no longer being supported by Punkbusters, we need to self regulate this. at least 2 other players had the same question about this player (he seemed to know exactly where we were when we weren't very consipicious in spots) on separate instances.

Is this type of discussion not allow anymore? I know a number of people have been caught because of sharing of these types of suspicions (i've personally caught at least 2 on video after this stuff has gone down). I want to give people the benefit of the doubt, but when a number of people have the same thoughts how are going to know?

little_old_man · February 11, 2015

Tonight I was playing MW2 server, and a number of us were questioning another player that we thought had some suspicious play.

An admin told us to stop complaining, and stop talking about it.

This included a few respected players who i don't perceive as complainers (except for myself, I'm a supreme bitcher, i admit) I'll let them chime in if they read this and want to.

I get the Admins are doing their job, and we are trying to keep the bitching down, which i've been working on as of late, but I don't see how questioning suspicious play is complaining. With Cod4 no longer being supported by Punkbusters, we need to self regulate this. at least 2 other players had the same question about this player (he seemed to know exactly where we were when we weren't very consipicious in spots) on separate instances.

Is this type of discussion not allow anymore? I know a number of people have been caught because of sharing of these types of suspicions (i've personally caught at least 2 on video after this stuff has gone down). I want to give people the benefit of the doubt, but when a number of people have the same thoughts how are going to know?

Accusing somebody of hacking during game play is against the rules, period. If you and others suspect somebody is hacking talk about it privately in teamspeak or pull an admin aside on Xfire. The best thing you can do is go to spectate and take some video like Pete did in the other thread. Then the admins can review the video and render a decision on what action needs to be taken. It's as simple as that.

Edited February 11, 2015 by little_old_man

chomama · February 11, 2015

This seems like an oversimplification.

Personally, I don't agree that questioning something suspicious is accusing someone of hacking. How do I know others are suspecting the same thing?

Maybe i'm in the minority.

But I guess if there's no room for discussion, then I'll leave it alone.

Thank you for the reply.

Devildog4355 · February 11, 2015

"hackusations" are not aloud, they have never been aloud. some have aloud it to happen which have plagued the servers with the thinking that someone's good play-style may be hacking. simply we must allow the admins to find these hackers and deal with it accordingly. if you have any suspicion of someone hacking message one of the admins of your respected game (Xfire, TS, website) and bring it to there attention. i'm sure they will be happy to help!

Thanks,

Devil

Edited February 11, 2015 by Devildog4355

NITRO · February 11, 2015

This seems like an oversimplification.

Personally, I don't agree that questioning something suspicious is accusing someone of hacking. How do I know others are suspecting the same thing?

Maybe i'm in the minority.

But I guess if there's no room for discussion, then I'll leave it alone.

Thank you for the reply.

Questioning something is not the equivalent of accusing someone. Also there is always room for discussion but we are trying to move it from the server to the forums to leave the server for gaming

If the suspected player is a member and posting a thread would alert them then grab an admin and discuss your ideas/feelings with them.

If you feel that you were spoken to inapropriately by the admin in question, then take it up with a head admin

Sammy · February 11, 2015

Thats kind of like cops saying a 'person of interest' isnt a suspect in a crime.

iboomboom · February 11, 2015

@@chomama please use the ticket system to initiate a formal investigation. If you suspect a player, you may do the following:

- get an admin's attention & make them aware (i.e Xfire,TS)

- record the suspected player and submit the demos to the admins via the ticket system

We are not discouraging vigilance but we want to keep the in-game environment free of drama. If you're simply curious about how someone did something, it should be fine. Keep in mind though inflammatory language creates a bad vibe. It starts from a question as in "how" and before you know it "bs","hacks"...i do appreciate you taking the time to post here.

7Toes · February 11, 2015

JAH · February 11, 2015

How long did you discuss the suspected player in-game?

Did you take steps to investigate them?

Did you take steps to record them?

Did you expect the admin to record them?

Did you speak to the admin in xfire?

Did you have xfire on?

Did the admin ask you to have xfire on?

Did the admin ask you politely to stop?

Several players all having the mentality someone is a hack breeds distrust and creates a bad environment.

One person can be thought to be a hack by a whole team just because two people dont shut up about it.

This is what we are trying to stop.

I know both you and Oliver are fair old whiners. it can be hard to tell when your whining is actually legit...

Having xfire on and talking to the admin directly is the best way to deal with it.

The admin will have viewed that your discussion amongst yourselves was not constructive and disrupting the server.

If you honestly have suspicions then spec the player and head to xfire or teamspeak, rather than voice to everyone they are a hack without proof.

chomama · February 11, 2015

How long did you discuss the suspected player in-game?

Did you take steps to investigate them?

Did you take steps to record them?

Did you expect the admin to record them?

Did you speak to the admin in xfire?

Did you have xfire on?

Did the admin ask you to have xfire on?

Did the admin ask you politely to stop?

Several players all having the mentality someone is a hack breeds distrust and creates a bad environment.

One person can be thought to be a hack by a whole team just because two people dont shut up about it.

This is what we are trying to stop.

I know both you and Oliver are fair old whiners. it can be hard to tell when your whining is actually legit...

Having xfire on and talking to the admin directly is the best way to deal with it.

The admin will have viewed that your discussion amongst yourselves was not constructive and disrupting the server.

If you honestly have suspicions then spec the player and head to xfire or teamspeak, rather than voice to everyone they are a hack without proof.

as you stated most of my "accusations" or "complaints" in the past are joking. If I do suspect someone, I usually spec and record, but that's after a number of people have raises suspicions as well. If i'm the only one I just chalk it up to coincidence, bad timing, or whatever.

We were really only discussing it for a couple minutes, and I don't recall anyone calling the guy a hacker. A number of seperate people had the same question about the same player, then the admin politely told us to stop talking about it or we'd be kicked. This led to a couple people (XI members) leaving when we asked why we weren't allowed to talk about it, and were just told not to discuss it.

Later that night, I just happened to be specing someone, when another member on our team questioned how he knew where the enemy was. Someone said they were giving him intel over teamspeak. it made sense, since it was sudden death, and everyone accepted that answer, and moved on. That is where I see the benefit of having these discussions.

Thank you all for your response, I will just go through the proper channels from now on.

JAH · February 11, 2015

Cool, then fair enough.

As long as it is constructive then there is no problem, admin could have joined the discussion and asked what happened? why are you suspicious and agree to both be vigilant, even both ppl spec them at same time.

It can be a hard thing to judge. Admins want to improve the overall mood of the server while still respecting members and guests.

We can all get a better server by working together and respecting each other.

We actively say we got intel over TS.

Having ppl in teamspeak can mean good discussion about players but without it being broadcast in game.

I do recommend TS, even if it is a bit hectic with all the other noises going on.

Roxy! · February 11, 2015

I was the adm in question here... About ur general question Chomama I will add to the answer the other Adms give to u already. About what happened last night specifically, I was trying to talk with you privately cuz I dont think this kind of situation should be talked about here first but as u bring it up here I will send copy of the PM I composed for u earlier: Hi Chomama, I decided to send this private message to let you know my opinion of what happened the other night on the server. I want you to know that my request to you (Oliver, another XI member and u) was from the beginning: " please guys let's play, stop complaining about this." For several minutes all the players in my team heard your thoughts about the player that bothered u. None of you asked me once please check the behavior of this player, u guys just continued stating your suspicions and the impossible way he was playing (in an accusatory and sarcastic manner). For me, that did not come across as a discussion but complaining. That is why I acted. We are trying to reduce the amount of complaining on our servers, I hope you agree this is for the better. But the truth is that it felt like my request was received with continued mocking. For example, creating a pretend code between you to still talk about the same subject even when I asked nicely to stop it. After that u guys ask me what consequences would there be if u continued to talk about it and challenged what I will do about it. That was when I got more serious about it and asked you to stop all this. Then you went and created the public message without asking to speak to me in private. I am puzzled by this, I have nothing personal with you and on the contrary you seem to me one of the nicest people. That's why I found it strange not to come to me first with this question of yours through Xfire or a private message to discuss it. Either way I want it to be clear that if you do have any doubt you're sure you can come to me about it. THANK YOU!

chomama · February 11, 2015

I didn't have a problem with you roxy, but just wanted clarification of what we are allowed to discuss in game. that is why I didn't mention you by name, because It wasn't an admin issue.

as you know from playing with me, I joke about almost everything, so of course things get sarcastic. As I stated earlier, I think there's benefits to discussing these things in game, but I now know it's a minority opinion, and will not discuss things in game.

I hope I didn't upset you, as not my intention, and again the reason why I didn't feel it was necessary to name you or any admins on this discussion.

Cylon · February 11, 2015

"hackusations" are not aloud, they have never been aloud. some have aloud it to happen which have plagued the servers with the thinking that someone's good play-style may be hacking. simply we must allow the admins to find these hackers and deal with it accordingly. if you have any suspicion of someone hacking message one of the admins of your respected game (Xfire, TS, website) and bring it to there attention. i'm sure they will be happy to help!

Thanks,

Devil

Allowed

Cylon · February 11, 2015

And also Punkbuster does work, It may not be supported still but it's still required, without an update on punkbuster you would only be on the server for less than a minute before it kicks you for out of date.

Sammy · February 12, 2015

It does work. It is just no longer being updated by them for new guids+hacks etc. However it is still used by streaming services that do add new ones if caught cheating and added to the list.

CobraBites · February 12, 2015

Tonight I was playing MW2 server, and a number of us were questioning another player that we thought had some suspicious play.

An admin told us to stop complaining, and stop talking about it.

This included a few respected players who i don't perceive as complainers (except for myself, I'm a supreme bitcher, i admit) I'll let them chime in if they read this and want to.

I get the Admins are doing their job, and we are trying to keep the bitching down, which i've been working on as of late, but I don't see how questioning suspicious play is complaining. With Cod4 no longer being supported by Punkbusters, we need to self regulate this. at least 2 other players had the same question about this player (he seemed to know exactly where we were when we weren't very consipicious in spots) on separate instances.

Is this type of discussion not allow anymore? I know a number of people have been caught because of sharing of these types of suspicions (i've personally caught at least 2 on video after this stuff has gone down). I want to give people the benefit of the doubt, but when a number of people have the same thoughts how are going to know?

ANGUS · February 12, 2015

Were beginning to not be aloud to speak our minds Cho, Might as well accepted it...

CobraBites · February 12, 2015

ther is difference in speakn ur minds and accusing of hackers or complaining bout someone being suspicious in game.....those has to stop its puttin too much negativity in server ppl dont realize how many its chased away from our servers ....mw2 has loss the fun factor as it once had when i first started playin nearly 4 yrs ago....last yr or so has getn to the point of being unbearable to play in there

and as it was stated b4 the hack accusations was never allowed in first place....as L.O.M and devildog has mentiond they should know they been around xi longer then most

Edited February 12, 2015 by CobraBites

ANGUS · February 12, 2015

Yeah i know, i've been here just as long and could name a thousand people that fit the bill ..... And you dont have to be playing with someone that might complain and bitch to lose the fun factor ,Just watch and listen,,, You would be amazed how quick an great night can go sour .... It only takes one or two to change the whole night , Noted that's why I'm listening more :)..... lol It is actualy funny to hear peeps that say one thing and do another...

Edited February 12, 2015 by ANGU5

CobraBites · February 12, 2015

guess im confused bout the whole fuss here...

ANGUS · February 12, 2015

lol you know how these post go. Random as hell ...

DramaLlama · February 12, 2015

Were beginning to not be aloud to speak our minds Cho, Might as well accepted it...

That is not what is happening. We want people to speak their minds, but do it in a different manner. If there is an issue, try to deal with it outside of the server and not cause drama in the server. The server is there for fun, not drama.

The culture on the server needs to change. There are far too many hacking accusations happening on the server. It is rude to call out someone for cheating on the server. As other people have stated before, don't do it in the server. If you suspect someone, get ahold of an admin, and ask them to check it out. If you can't find one, get a demo and send it to an admin. As soon as one person calls out someone, mob mentality takes over, and things deteriorate from there, and that is what we are trying to avoid. We have had many people chased away (including members) from our servers because of constant accusations from members and non-members. If someone new comes to our server and sees the accusations all the time, why would they want to come back?? We probably look like we run a shitty server to them.

It isn't easy to change a culture. It takes time, and there will be growing pains, and this thread is a perfect example. It will be a group effort on the part of everyone: admins, members and non-members. Us admins are trying to figure out how this will all work too and how to best bring about changes, and we will make mistakes, and people will get pissed. We don't have all of the answers, so we need help from everyone.

The direction we are trying to move towards will make our server far superior to what it already is. And if things don't get better, Rugger will break out his whip and chaps, and I'm pretty sure we don't want to see that.

CobraBites · February 12, 2015

The direction we are trying to move towards will make our server far superior to what it already is. And if things don't get better, Rugger will break out his whip and chaps, and I'm pretty sure we don't want to see that.

i've seen it not pretty sight lmao...dont do it @@Ruggerxi lol

Roxy! · February 12, 2015

That is not what is happening. We want people to speak their minds, but do it in a different manner. If there is an issue, try to deal with it outside of the server and not cause drama in the server. The server is there for fun, not drama.

The culture on the server needs to change. There are far too many hacking accusations happening on the server. It is rude to call out someone for cheating on the server. As other people have stated before, don't do it in the server. If you suspect someone, get ahold of an admin, and ask them to check it out. If you can't find one, get a demo and send it to an admin. As soon as one person calls out someone, mob mentality takes over, and things deteriorate from there, and that is what we are trying to avoid. We have had many people chased away (including members) from our servers because of constant accusations from members and non-members. If someone new comes to our server and sees the accusations all the time, why would they want to come back?? We probably look like we run a shitty server to them.

It isn't easy to change a culture. It takes time, and there will be growing pains, and this thread is a perfect example. It will be a group effort on the part of everyone: admins, members and non-members. Us admins are trying to figure out how this will all work too and how to best bring about changes, and we will make mistakes, and people will get pissed. We don't have all of the answers, so we need help from everyone.

The direction we are trying to move towards will make our server far superior to what it already is. And if things don't get better, Rugger will break out his whip and chaps, and I'm pretty sure we don't want to see that.

Simple and perfectly clear!!

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