DramaLlama Posted March 12, 2018 Member ID: 1443 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 50 Topic Count: 149 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2299 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 3788 Achievement Points: 17866 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 14 Joined: 05/24/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: June 8, 2023 Birthday: 02/19/1987 Device: Windows Share Posted March 12, 2018 My question is about the sill plate in the picture below: On the right side, there is about a 1/2 inch of the plate on the foundation, so it is barely hanging on (No idea what idiot thought this was a good idea). It is kinda hard to see, but the plate is bowing a bit, and there is a crack starting to form in the plate under the rightmost joist hanger and follows the grain. On the floor above, there is a brick hearth, so there is quite a bit of weight on this area. My first thought was to frame in a header since it is a 40 inch opening. However, the floor directly under the plate is some patchwork concrete that is very rough and not level, so it would be difficult to frame. What can I do to fix this problem with the sill plate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
TBB Posted March 12, 2018 Member ID: 989 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 25 Topic Count: 265 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 18130 Content Per Day: 3.47 Reputation: 20144 Achievement Points: 132861 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 263 Joined: 01/07/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: 2 hours ago Birthday: 01/27/1946 Device: Windows Share Posted March 12, 2018 Maybe get an architect or an engineer to look at it - of course that woulds involve some $$. Could you add an additional cement block column on the right under the plate?? Think that woulds give you the required support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
TBB Posted March 12, 2018 Member ID: 989 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 25 Topic Count: 265 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 18130 Content Per Day: 3.47 Reputation: 20144 Achievement Points: 132861 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 263 Joined: 01/07/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: 2 hours ago Birthday: 01/27/1946 Device: Windows Share Posted March 12, 2018 Another dumb idea - can't see the extent of the floor issue but could you get a mason with a diamond grinder to level the floor under the area?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
LaRSin Posted March 12, 2018 Member ID: 45 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 68 Topic Count: 981 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 9013 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 3550 Achievement Points: 65850 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: 1 hour ago Birthday: 02/25/1951 Device: Windows Share Posted March 12, 2018 It looks like a 2x6 on top of a 2x4 , and should be enough , I see what your talking about , but the 2x6 goes straight across .As long as bricks that support it are fine. ANGU5, EDD THE DUCK and Blackbart 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
J3st3r Posted March 12, 2018 Member ID: 2162 Group: ++ COD4 Admin Followers: 153 Topic Count: 152 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5088 Content Per Day: 1.05 Reputation: 5010 Achievement Points: 44663 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 22 Joined: 01/25/11 Status: Offline Last Seen: Yesterday at 12:03 AM Birthday: 02/26/1972 Device: Windows Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, LaRSin said: It looks like a 2x6 on top of a 2x4 , and should be enough , I see what your talking about , but the 2x6 goes straight across .As long as bricks that support it are fine. Hello no. There is very very little strength in a board that's turned sideways. That bottom board is the Seal plate. A seal plate is usually Pined or bolted to the foundation and the Joists are nailed to the seal plate. There needs to be some sort of Header installed since it is definitely load bearing. And a Reinforced Concrete Lintel will not be enough to hold that kind of load. 3 2x10s glued and screwed or glued and nailed together and 6" to 8" (or more if you want) wider than the opening. Use 3 2x10s minimal. Use 3x12s if you have room to get them in. That's ALOT of weight up there. An average sized fireplace and chimney can easily weigh 5 ton+ and that's just for the Brick work. Here this will help you Alot. Skip down to where it says Step 1. It's a bit of work but it will save your fireplace and chimney from crashing through the floor. Looks like you have some water staining on the joists. I would call someone in and have them inspect the brickwork after you jack up the floor and install the header. Brickwork can be resealed if they are not to bad. https://www.oneprojectcloser.com/how-to-replace-a-load-bearing-door-header/ I was a licensed and insured contractor before I got hurt. Me and my 5 man crew did the Framing, roofing, plumbing, electric and kitchen installs. My boss and his small 3 man group were the Masons. They did the foundations and concrete and stone work and driveways and sidewalks. Then we had a 6 man Finishing crew that did all of the pretty stuff like insulation, drywall, flooring, paint, trim and siding. We contracted out the HVAC stuff for insurance purposes. Edited March 12, 2018 by J3st3rXI YACCster, KillerKitty, Blackbart and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Tw33tle_Dee Posted March 13, 2018 Member ID: 23628 Group: ** Registered Users Followers: 1 Topic Count: 33 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 218 Achievement Points: 2278 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/26/15 Status: Offline Last Seen: Monday at 03:04 PM Device: Windows Share Posted March 13, 2018 Agree with jester. If the floor isn't good enough to support the jack posts, cut a section out and poor a footer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted March 13, 2018 Member ID: 51 Group: Fallen Members Followers: 51 Topic Count: 342 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5974 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 3766 Achievement Points: 45818 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 27, 2021 Birthday: 06/26/1949 Share Posted March 13, 2018 What is the purpose of the alcove, is head space an issue?...If it is you may need to go to a steel beam to span the opening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
DramaLlama Posted March 13, 2018 Member ID: 1443 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 50 Topic Count: 149 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2299 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 3788 Achievement Points: 17866 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 14 Joined: 05/24/10 Status: Offline Last Seen: June 8, 2023 Birthday: 02/19/1987 Device: Windows Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 10 hours ago, Blackbart said: What is the purpose of the alcove, is head space an issue?...If it is you may need to go to a steel beam to span the opening... It is the continuation of the chimney into my basement. Basement has an 8ft ceiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Hawk Posted March 13, 2018 Member ID: 24799 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 8 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 138 Achievement Points: 1024 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/18/16 Status: Offline Last Seen: January 21 Device: iPad Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) I was wondering what the use is as well. I'm wondering if the courses of block and brick under those bearing points have cells grouted solid or not... It also looks like there is some minor water damage in that area as well. Do you plan on turning that into a closet or something useful? What is the abandoned joist hanger for? Why does it look like the first joist to the right of the opening isn't attached to the floor beam (no hanger, can't see any toenailed framing nails)? Looking at this, the 2x4 isn't doing anything. It literally isn't supporting the load of the floor above. The floor beam spanning that opening is doing all the work. You can cut that out and it won't affect anything. HOWEVER, based on the fact that it's bowing, there may be more of an issue than that sill plate. The floor beam spanning that opening is being overloaded and thus probably also bowing. There are a few options you can do. OPTION #1 - if you don't care about losing some of that space, or having access to the full 40" opening, you can get an adjustable steel column to and place it mid-span, to shore up and straighten the bow in the 2x4 sill. Then, add another 2x6 (or whatever the floor joist structure is) to span the opening, strengthening that area. Make sure you have a minimum of 6" of bearing on each end of that opening. If it doesn't bother you, leave the column in there. On the right side, take a 6x4 member, cut to the height of that brick wall, and place it at the right end, under the sill plate to allow for 5.25"(+/-) more of bearing at that end. Make sure the 6x4 is anchored to the wall, the floor and the sill, using steel straps. OPTION #2 (better option) - Purchase two 4x6 to use for columns at each end of the opening. Build a header to span over the two columns using (2) 2x8. Attach the columns to the wall and floor and the header. (See attached sketch) With either option, I would still attach another floor beam over that opening with a minimum 6" bearing each end. As for bearing at an opening, typically, for a 40" opening, you need a minimum 6" bearing on each end of the opening . Just FYI, I work in the structural engineering field. Currently employed in a full architecture/engineering firm in the structural engineering department. Edited March 13, 2018 by Hawk BUDMAN, Dessy, KillerKitty and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
DAMAGEPLAN Posted March 13, 2018 Member ID: 25134 Group: ***- Inactive Clan Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 54 Achievement Points: 717 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/16 Status: Offline Last Seen: May 21, 2018 Birthday: 12/17/1971 Share Posted March 13, 2018 cut a 4x6 the width of the opening. Jack it up underneath the bowing 2x4 until straight. Put lolly columns on each side and walk away. That's the easiest fix without opening up a can of worms and emptying your pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Streetcleaner Posted March 13, 2018 Member ID: 20996 Group: ** Registered Users Followers: 12 Topic Count: 53 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1751 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 1522 Achievement Points: 15690 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 4 Joined: 03/27/14 Status: Offline Last Seen: 1 hour ago Device: Windows Share Posted March 13, 2018 I agree with Jester but it looks like you don't have a whole lot of room on the inside I would jack it up level one jack right in the middle... and with a 4x4 piece of wood you can jack it up level then on each side glue and screw a 2x10 run those at least .if you can,at least 3 feet on either side of that span notching out for the cross beams...unless you want to cut those back and use joist hangers again.(more work)....also once in place the 2x10's get metal shims to tighten up any spots....since we are only using 2 2x10's and the space in the basement under the fire place isn't really being used...for added measure add a metal support/load bearing collum right next to the 2 ends of the cider block walls(one on each side) ...making sure they are inside flush,meaning they don't protrude out into the room so if you ever want to put a wall there.... what do you think Jester? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iboomboom Posted March 13, 2018 Member ID: 20343 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 89 Topic Count: 203 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3381 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 3019 Achievement Points: 30034 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/13 Status: Offline Last Seen: 2 hours ago Birthday: 07/01/1983 Device: Macintosh Share Posted March 13, 2018 What happened to the barn in the farm grazing the pasture sleeping on the hay... Llama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Streetcleaner Posted March 13, 2018 Member ID: 20996 Group: ** Registered Users Followers: 12 Topic Count: 53 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1751 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 1522 Achievement Points: 15690 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 4 Joined: 03/27/14 Status: Offline Last Seen: 1 hour ago Device: Windows Share Posted March 13, 2018 Oh I forgot how much sag do you have upstairs by the fireplace? to find out ,you will need at least an 8 foot level...lay it parallel with the hearth then the opposite coming out from the fireplace towards the room...that is how you will find how far up to jack it...when the dip is level and there is no space or minimal space under the level..... good luck and while your working...you must listen to Pantera and loud !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANGU5 Posted March 14, 2018 Member ID: 2985 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 71 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1670 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 3012 Achievement Points: 20177 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 14 Joined: 11/13/11 Status: Offline Last Seen: Yesterday at 02:50 AM Birthday: 12/01/1966 Device: Android Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hawk said: I was wondering what the use is as well. I'm wondering if the courses of block and brick under those bearing points have cells grouted solid or not... It also looks like there is some minor water damage in that area as well. Do you plan on turning that into a closet or something useful? What is the abandoned joist hanger for? Why does it look like the first joist to the right of the opening isn't attached to the floor beam (no hanger, can't see any toenailed framing nails)? Looking at this, the 2x4 isn't doing anything. It literally isn't supporting the load of the floor above. The floor beam spanning that opening is doing all the work. You can cut that out and it won't affect anything. HOWEVER, based on the fact that it's bowing, there may be more of an issue than that sill plate. The floor beam spanning that opening is being overloaded and thus probably also bowing. There are a few options you can do. OPTION #1 - if you don't care about losing some of that space, or having access to the full 40" opening, you can get an adjustable steel column to and place it mid-span, to shore up and straighten the bow in the 2x4 sill. Then, add another 2x6 (or whatever the floor joist structure is) to span the opening, strengthening that area. Make sure you have a minimum of 6" of bearing on each end of that opening. If it doesn't bother you, leave the column in there. On the right side, take a 6x4 member, cut to the height of that brick wall, and place it at the right end, under the sill plate to allow for 5.25"(+/-) more of bearing at that end. Make sure the 6x4 is anchored to the wall, the floor and the sill, using steel straps. OPTION #2 (better option) - Purchase two 4x6 to use for columns at each end of the opening. Build a header to span over the two columns using (2) 2x8. Attach the columns to the wall and floor and the header. (See attached sketch) With either option, I would still attach another floor beam over that opening with a minimum 6" bearing each end. As for bearing at an opening, typically, for a 40" opening, you need a minimum 6" bearing on each end of the opening . Just FYI, I work in the structural engineering field. Currently employed in a full architecture/engineering firm in the structural engineering department. Well there you go.......Just send $5000 to this p.o box and he'll hook you right/...;) Just a few of his last projects for references... Good luck.. Edited March 14, 2018 by ANGU5 Hawk, KillerKitty, Dessy and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Tw33tle_Dee Posted March 14, 2018 Member ID: 23628 Group: ** Registered Users Followers: 1 Topic Count: 33 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 218 Achievement Points: 2278 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/26/15 Status: Offline Last Seen: Monday at 03:04 PM Device: Windows Share Posted March 14, 2018 After you straighten the joist,if the floor is questionable and you don't want to get into footer work, you could take advantage of the alcove for support and bolt a piece of steel and gluelamb to the existing joist bearing on the alcove block walls thus not requiring any jack posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labob Posted March 14, 2018 Member ID: 42 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 50 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 8264 Content Per Day: 1.54 Reputation: 5977 Achievement Points: 53612 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 12 Joined: 09/01/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: 1 hour ago Birthday: 01/30/1959 Device: Windows Share Posted March 14, 2018 no no and no you need to install a lentil beam more to the point a angle lentil beam . google it easy fix for something that big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Labob Posted March 14, 2018 Member ID: 42 Group: *** Clan Members Followers: 50 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 8264 Content Per Day: 1.54 Reputation: 5977 Achievement Points: 53612 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 12 Joined: 09/01/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: 1 hour ago Birthday: 01/30/1959 Device: Windows Share Posted March 14, 2018 https://statewidebuildingproducts.com.au/blog/steel-lintels-benefit/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Crusher Posted March 14, 2018 Member ID: 4598 Group: ++ COD5 Admin Followers: 27 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 587 Achievement Points: 4778 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 6 Joined: 01/01/13 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 18 Birthday: 01/28/1972 Device: Windows Share Posted March 14, 2018 Ahhhh, Just put an adjust-a-post under it with a 2X8 spanning below and it will be all good. Or, Just frame it in. The wood over that distance will be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Awards
Streetcleaner Posted March 14, 2018 Member ID: 20996 Group: ** Registered Users Followers: 12 Topic Count: 53 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1751 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 1522 Achievement Points: 15690 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 4 Joined: 03/27/14 Status: Offline Last Seen: 1 hour ago Device: Windows Share Posted March 14, 2018 OR........Just blow it the fuck up and start all over !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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