Obvious Glitching

[GhostfaceJim]

Tonight at 11:10pm whilst playing mp_newhurtgen we caught White_Dragon glitching outside the map.  He climbed a fence and was way out of bounds.  He got 14 kills before I finally saw his muzzleflash and was able to finally kill him.  All I got was a screen shot of it.

 

[Phoenix911]

IMO, if he can be seen/shot, its not advantageous. He did not go 'through a solid object' as was pointed out to me the last week, and climbing/jumping to get somewhere is alright...not defending him, just highlighting the discrepancies in what is and is not considered 'acceptable' to admins.

[GhostfaceJim]

That's just it.  He could not be seen (except for the muzzleflashes).  If he had a silencer he could have been up there all night.  And he was way out of bounds (or where the mapmakers did not intend for us to go).

[deerejon]

I know that spot and have warned others from going there....although you do NOT go "through a solid object" to get there, there is no border once there...meaning you will fall off the edge of the "world"

It is obvious, extremely obvious, that it is not an intended playable area....

I don't think there are many "discrepancies" on what is considered "acceptable"...it ALWAYS comes back to what the map maker intended...or is reasonable to all of us as adults with an understanding that the servers are for fun.  

[Hemps]

i dont think that he was thinking this is a glitch as others have been up there. i've seen others up there and never noticed not being able to see them, there are bushes up there he could be hiding in.

well have to take a look at this and see if this is a glitch, but since the settings are set up on this servers where one can jump higher then the map makes attended, it opens the door for players to get to spots other wise not possible which does happens all the time. as long as he can be seen and shot there might not be much to do about it.

[Hemps]

ok, so i took a look at this.

first of all it is very easy to get to without going threw a wall or anything, just a easy hop over the rock. but after that as you can see in the video you can go behind the "flat" bushes, but you can't see threw them to shoot. so as far as what white-dragon was doing, he was in the normal bushes shooting and as far as that not doing noting wrong,

but as in crossing that rock you can get all the way around the map next to the edge of the map where is is obvious where the map make didn't want players to go. so i would say going there should be not allowed and we should let players know that. of course i alone can't make this call but im sure the other admins would agree.

 

 

 

edit: forgot to say that after the spot where i jumped into the water there is an invisible wall that won't let you back into the map

Edited July 25, 2014 by Hemps

[7Toes]

i think as punishment he should be marked for a week by admins so everyone can see were hes at lol

[Phoenix911]

ok, so i took a look at this.

first of all it is very easy to get to without going threw a wall or anything, just a easy hop over the rock. but after that as you can see in the video you can go behind the "flat" bushes, but you can't see threw them to shoot. so as far as what white-dragon was doing, he was in the normal bushes shooting and as far as that not doing noting wrong,

but as in crossing that rock you can get all the way around the map next to the edge of the map where is is obvious where the map make didn't want players to go. so i would say going there should be not allowed and we should let players know that. of course i alone can't make this call but im sure the other admins would agree.

 

 

 

edit: forgot to say that after the spot where i jumped into the water there is an invisible wall that won't let you back into the map

 

 

In my opinion, this is no different then going on a roof or anywhere else the map makers did not intend for people to go. Yes, you can go behind the 'solid' bush to where you can go under the map, but you can do that on others as well, for instance the map with the church tower/bell that has the stooges noise when shot you can fall under the map when jumping on the wall/railing to get to the roof on the North side. In that case it is perfectly acceptable as long as you dont go off the map and stay in a non-advantageous position.

 

For this situation, as long as he is in an area that can be seen/shot and inside of the 'solid' bush wall, that should be fine. Using the argument of him being in a bush where you cant see them unless there's a muzzle flash is not valid because that can hold true for any bush...this just happens to be in an area that is not typically looked at.

[GhostfaceJim]

We have all climbed on top of a building or even stood in a bush where it is not expected, but inside the map and within reason.  Now standing inside a tree trunk, statue, or inside an attic where you can shoot people without being seen is cheating so is going under the map off the map.  I say if you have to move outside the map to get into a shooting position that is also out of bounds then that's cheating.

 

I'm also shocked that players as good as you guys are can spend time trying to justify cheating.

[Unchileno]

IMO, if he can be seen/shot, its not advantageous. He did not go 'through a solid object' as was pointed out to me the last week, and climbing/jumping to get somewhere is alright...not defending him, just highlighting the discrepancies in what is and is not considered 'acceptable' to admins.

 

Lmfao...which part of "He is OUTSIDE map " you did NOT understand bud..

 

This is a BAN all day long in ANY server..

 

P.s..GLITCHING or Exploring glitches in ANY XI server is a BAN..is 1 of the first rules you read when joining game..

Edited July 26, 2014 by Unchileno

[Phoenix911]

I don't consider it cheating unless it is advantageous. I don't consider it outside the map unless he's outside the solid bush where you cannot see through and/or in 'white' area outside the map. The instances such as in an attic with see through floors, or a tree trunk/statue are advantageous as you absolutely cannot be seen and have an unobstructed view through walls, floors, etc. and should therefor not be allowed.

 

At the end of the day it's all about fun. Obvious cheating, and glitching such as the statue, see-through attics, under the map, etc are clearly not acceptable because they are advantageous. I myself would not go to that position, however I have no issue if others do because it is inside the boundaries of the visible map edge, is not advantageous, and as soon as everyone knows about it you'll have more people trying to get there and everyone will start knowing to look there to shoot them. It's the same when someone finds a new roof to climb on that someone previously didn't know about...everyone cries foul, or at least thinks it, but then you get to know people go there and you know where to look/shoot in the future and it's acceptable. Just because it is inside of the lateral playable map confines, doesn't mean it was intended to be accessible by the map maker, and therefor is outside of the vertical confines of the playable area, making it the exact same situation...but in that case it's ok? If you look at the map as a 3d playable area, you'll realize jumping on a roof that isn't supposed to be accessible is exactly the same as being outside the playable area laterally...as long as you are not in an advantageous position.

 

I know plenty of you disagree with me, but unless it is advantageous, I stand by my stance that it should be fair game.

[NORESPECT4U]

My two cents. If this were Me, Coffee, Skuz or any XI player I would say drop the ax on them. But this is White Dragon! I give him the benefit of doubt that he even realized that what he was doing was potentially wrong. Correct him and move on. I'm sure he was laughing and enjoying making so many "kills" for a change instead of being "killed." One could argue, as I believe Phoenix911 stated, if you can kill them is it a glitch or did they find a "lucky" spot. That map has spots where one can shoot from one side and not be killed by rifles, but killed from pistols all the way across the map. Go figure.

[ENG4INE]

I was there when SEVERAL people went out into that area. It's a glitch as the map maker did not intend for people to go there. Everyone arguing but you can shoot him it's the same as blah blah blah...No it's not because the difference between a bush that's good for hiding inside the map and one that's outside the map is just that, it's outside the fucking map. It's always been a long standing rule that when the map maker didn't intend for you to go there it is a glitch and outside map. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel and remake the rules. They were in place long before any of us were members. As for White Dragon, he is a great guy who I guarantee got the idea from someone else who said, "hey look at this cool place.". Just as I heard people saying. Warn him, post on here for everyone else not to go there and then ban there asses when they do.

[Sammy]

If the problem happens because of non-standard settings such as jump height then change them back. The reason for such changes is to allow players to do things they normally are not supposed to be able to do.  In other words, in a way the creators did not intend for the game to be played.

 

If I complain that people here are able and allowed to jump higher than what was intended, and it is an unfair advantage, then I will be told too bad. If however I go somewhere that the mapper didnt intend, because I could jump higher, then I will be told to move or be kicked. Its inconsistent. So if 'intent' is the issue then change the settings back to stanard.

[Hemps]

most of the players on the cod5 ftag server are regulars and once we get the word out it won't be a problem.  this is something that can be taken care of without banning anyone!

 

plus if we where to ban everyone who goes places that the map makes didn't plan for players to go there wouldn't be anyone left to play!

[XxSNO0PxX]

 My Opinion is that White Dragon did no realize the problem with this. If someone brings it to his attention then I really do not think he will go there again. he is a regular player and would listen if he is told not to go there....As far as it being cheating, My opinion is that as long as he is in bounds and can be killed then it should be fair game. Maybe we should put up some do not cross tape to make those places obvious...LOL

[blackcat]

Imo, that is a glitch and I would tell anyone to get out of there. I'm sure the mapmaker did not intend on that being a playable area. Anytime you can see white cracks, you're to close to the edge of the map or somewhere you should not be.  A player should not have to continue to look for muzzle flash to find the person that keeps killing them. They should be able to see them and not depend on a muzzle flash. Most of you are good players anyway and don't need to go looking around for places that are or could be considered glitches. Act like adults and play fair, within the bounds of the mapmakers intended areas, not boarding on the cracks of a map.

[Unchileno]

Imo, that is a glitch and I would tell anyone to get out of there. I'm sure the mapmaker did not intend on that being a playable area. Anytime you can see white cracks, you're to close to the edge of the map or somewhere you should not be.  A player should not have to continue to look for muzzle flash to find the person that keeps killing them. They should be able to see them and not depend on a muzzle flash. Most of you are good players anyway and don't need to go looking around for places that are or could be considered glitches. Act like adults and play fair, within the bounds of the mapmakers intended areas, not boarding on the cracks of a map.

And this is why we choose you as Head Admin love. The voice of wisdom and firm hand.

 

Well said.

[Coffee4You]

I have see this 1st hand. May have been in that area a few times myself. Always seen by the other side and shot. I Will Not Go There Again!

I was playing on the sever that night and I heard no IX members say anything about not going over the rock/fence! I Will Warn Anyone In This Area Not To Go There Again!

I agree that it is not a place we as mature players should go to take advantage of!

White Dragon is a regular player on the server.

We should warn him not to go there again! Not BAN Him!

 

"My 2 Cents"  Coffee4You

[concours]

white dragon really !!! damn he is older than i am and probably couldnt see that he was out of bounds lol. warn him and move on. there are plenty of in map places on this map that are questionable and are in the play bounds. my 2 cents. 

[Kansas88]

Imo, that is a glitch and I would tell anyone to get out of there. I'm sure the mapmaker did not intend on that being a playable area. Anytime you can see white cracks, you're to close to the edge of the map or somewhere you should not be.  A player should not have to continue to look for muzzle flash to find the person that keeps killing them. They should be able to see them and not depend on a muzzle flash. Most of you are good players anyway and don't need to go looking around for places that are or could be considered glitches. Act like adults and play fair, within the bounds of the mapmakers intended areas, not boarding on the cracks of a map.

Agreed but I'd like to sum up what blackcat just said in two words: "Crack Kills!"  And "Crack Kills" will get your crack happy arse banned! Moral of the story is "Don't do crack!"

Edited July 28, 2014 by Kansas88

[Astronomer]

Yeah it's a glitch, and any dumbass caught there should be given a warning, then the boot if they go back. We have our rules, with latitude given to our Admins to mete out punishments to fit the crime and circumstances. White_Dragon is a regular and is not prone to glitching or wildly out-of-whack scores, so issue a ticket and light probation. Now we all know this is a glitch-zone, so any schmuck stupid enough to go there again gets what they deserve.

[skuzapo]

I think we need to tread carefully here. There are a number of maps in our rotation that have areas that can be got to quite easily that the map maker likely intended to be off limits. As far as I know none of these offer an advantage in terms of being invincible or invisible, only temporary obscurity until everyone knows about it. IMO telling other players about these areas and so exposing them and continue allowing them to be used is the best policy. This eliminates the confusion and most of all, the need for them to be policed. 

[MrTwister]

I recently discovered this area from watching others gain access. I went in for a peek and felt it was border line shady and decided not to return. I'm also not XI so I might not get a warning....

I love White Dragon but if he gets 14 kills, you know something is wrong!

Edited July 28, 2014 by MrTwister

[Hunter1948]

This area is now considered a glitch.People that go there will be told and if they go back they will be kicked go back again and they may have to be banned.